Whose Planet Is It Anyway?

Tuesday, July 14, 2009

The Pinocchio Podcast

For my readers' amusement, I've put together a short list of famous lies in recent history:

-- Bill Clinton, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman," 1998.

-- Richard Nixon's denial of any knowledge about the Watergate break-in, 1972.

-- Barry Bonds' claim that he never used steroids, 2003.

-- Tony Attwood, in Donna Williams' recent podcast, only slightly exaggerated for parody purposes: "I have never used the term CADD, and anyone who says otherwise is a militant extremist and jealous of my success, and it was just too hard for me to find Ari Ne'eman's very prominently posted contact information."

Gee Tony, do you think your nose will still fit through the conference center doors?

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56 Comments:

  • It was a wonderfully inept performance.

    Unless your criteria for success is throwing buckets of gasoline around at a fire-works display.

    I noticed the Slater-Walker agglomeration has utterly repudiated Cassandra. And they refrain, darkly, from commenting on the buckets of dollars she's generated for her pimp.

    Tony's going cool on her too.

    So Cassandra, you gonna find out the hard way what happens when you mess with other women's husbands.

    By Blogger Socrates, at 5:07 PM  

  • I am slogging through the podcast right now and I am trying to recall, wasn't Donna that bimbo who wanted to have like shit load of accomodations for herself and her kids? Didn't she write "Pretending to be Normal?"

    By Blogger NightStorm The Aspiewolf, at 6:31 PM  

  • No, "Pretending to be Normal" was by Liane Holliday Willey.

    Incidentally, Attwood did the introduction to that book, too.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:38 PM  

  • Night Storm, just what is wrong with accomodations? There are some on the Spectrum who don't just want them - they need them.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 7:54 PM  

  • That was sumed up very well.

    Some the accusations that are being dismissed in the interview as invalid don't seem that way to me at all.

    In the interview Atwood reminds me of an evangelist in the Church of Modern Psychology who has studied his religion so well that he can skillfully break the laws of it. The sophistication seems to be the validation.

    He's stuck now as well he could have predicted.

    He accepted the ties with these organizations and individuals knowing that it would not empower the autistic population he claimed to serve and then when that population acts in an an empowered way, he needs to be even more disempowering toward them. It's condescending to claim that we wouldn't speak out against this.

    I think the accusations that were said in the interview to be expected were expected for a reason. The reason is they are valid accusations.

    By Blogger Ed, at 8:21 PM  

  • Just thought I'd double my comment on the broadcast here, just in case it doesn't make it past moderation:
    _________________________________

    I just wanted to address a few things from the interview:


    Firstly, I'm a bit concerned about the characterisation of this campaign as "militant" - after all, the most dramatic thing to come out of the campaign so far has been a petition.

    I for one always attempt to remind people that this is not an attack on Tony as a person - it is solely about his name being used to promote FAAAS. Even this wasn't out of the blue - many people in the autistic community attempted to raise the issue with Tony long before the petition was launched.


    Secondly, I'm very concerned about the characterisation of autistic forums to be both "militant" and "herdlike". Autistic forums have a wide variety of expressed opinions - even this current petition has been hotly debated (including everything from "it shouldn't have happened" to "it didn't go far enough").

    The wide support for this position is the result of entirely valid concerns about the ramifications of Tony Attwood endorsing FAAAS - and that's all.


    Thirdly, and most importantly, this petition is not directed at Tony's association with FAAAS, it's directed at the use of his name to endorse the positions of FAAAS.

    At the moment, Tony Attwood's name is listed as being part of their "Professional Advisory Panel", implying that their positions are guided by his professional advice. His name also appears within the article urging discrimination against AS people in custody and divorce hearings, implying that he endorses this position.

    He could change these things with a word, but has chosen not to. As a result, people visiting the site will assume, from the context used, that Tony Attwood endorses the group.

    There is a world of difference between an association and an endorsement. If Tony wishes to associate (i.e. talk to and discuss issues with) this group, then that's entirely his personal business - it's the public endorsement that is the sole concern.

    Thanks for your time,
    - Zakkie

    By Blogger Zakkie, at 10:02 PM  

  • Thanks for the links, abfh. The Nixon and Clinton examples came to my mind as well.

    By Blogger Sarah, at 10:05 PM  

  • Night Storm, just what is wrong with accomodations? There are some on the Spectrum who don't just want them - they need them.

    Cutting line because you hate lines and they stress you isn't a vaild accomdation either is getting front row parking.

    I am all for accomdations. I am also all for adaptation.

    I hate long lines and I stim and bite my hands so...I learn to bring a game boy or an MP3 player. It was a good distraction and kept me from being stimmy and destrutive.

    But screaming "I WANT OR NEED THIS BECAUSE OF THIS EVENTHOUGH I CAN FIX THIS" for everything is a problem

    By Blogger NightStorm The Aspiewolf, at 10:41 PM  

  • Secondly, I'm very concerned about the characterisation of autistic forums to be both "militant" and "herdlike".

    WTF Dude have she been to WrongPlanet or AFF? Seriously they are the oppetsit of herdlike. No two Aspies can agree on anything. And gods forbid if you tell one that they are wrong

    Of course I am being a bit faecitious here :) we can agree here that Tony has some 'splainin' to do.

    By Blogger NightStorm The Aspiewolf, at 10:47 PM  

  • Incidentally, I find it quite odd that Attwood decided to do this in the form of a podcast-- rendering it quite inaccessible to those of us with auditory processing difficulties.

    (Would anyone be willing to slog through it and transcribe the most significant parts for my, and others', sake?)

    By Blogger codeman38, at 12:41 AM  

  • "... an evangelist in the Church of Modern Psychology ..."

    Speaking as a psychologist myself, I'm finding this bashing of psychology rather insulting and innappropriate: the fault isn't with psychology itself... it's with the people who are professing it and using/abusing it; and that is essentially politics. There's nothing inherently wrong with anything in psychology (eg. behaviourist psychology), but there is something wrong with how certain people (eg, Lovaas and his followers) have used it. There's probably very little wrong with the foundations of psychodynamic theories (eg,psychoanalysis), but there is somethign wrong with how some people (eg, Bettelheim) have used this stuff.

    It is not about psychology itself, it's about those who use it and other who abuse it.

    I wish people would stop bloody conflating the two. It pisses me off.

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 2:02 AM  

  • I'm sorry that offended you David. That wasn't my intention.

    I'm sure there are places where psychology is volentary and helpful. I know that in those people and with those people the pratice of psychology doesn't desrve to be bashed. I've just never been exposed to it in that way.

    By Blogger Ed, at 3:47 AM  

  • I meant in those "places" and with those people. sorry

    By Blogger Ed, at 3:54 AM  

  • Cutting line because you hate lines and they stress you isn't a vaild accomdation either is getting front row parking.

    Oh yes it is, Night Storm. In fact in Australia Donna can claim the disabled parking spot quite easily and legitimately. Stress is something that MUST be avoided for one on the Spectrum. I've seen some Auties completely meltdown under those circumstances. Allowing that to happen is cruel and inhuman.

    I am all for accomdations. I am also all for adaptation.

    What if the Autie can't adapt? We have to consider all options and find the best solution and that means accomodations if adaptation proves to be impossible.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 7:27 AM  

  • "I'm sure there are places where psychology is volentary and helpful. I know that in those people and with those people the pratice of psychology doesn't desrve to be bashed. I've just never been exposed to it in that way."

    Still the distinction really does need to be made that it is people, notpsychology, doing the damage; this is part of the reason why I became a psychologist myself, to be honest... if you gonna do anything to change how something's done, you really have to do it from within. All work on organisational culture change seems to point to this, really; and this is indeed a cultural thing, since culture functions for society as mind does for the individual.

    "I'm sorry that offended you David. That wasn't my intention."

    Okay, Ed. No worries. But do please remember that it is professionals who have the capacity to do the damage, not the profession. That's the point, really, that I'm trying to make. Where I'm working now is a social psychiatry unit in my adopted home town, and we are nothing like mainstream psychiatry at all. What we do centres not in the consuling room but in the cafe, and we don't do therapy (although we do have support groups - led by peers and professionals alike); instead, we we aim to provide an environment that minimises the stigma that society places on the person whose mental health is threatened or in bad shape. It's still 'psychiatry' in name, but done in such a different way... more to do with psychologically-oriented education - education for the mind - than with medication.

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 7:55 AM  

  • "What if the Autie can't adapt? We have to consider all options and find the best solution and that means accomodations if adaptation proves to be impossible."

    To a very large extent, I agree. If there's no possibility to adapt, then that means that there's a serious issue to be investigated as to why that person cannot adapt; I think that adaptation is important, though: that is essential for development. But there has to be a recognition ofthe adaptational limits of the individual: and then that's when the accommodations must come in.

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 7:58 AM  

  • I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    By Blogger sanabituranima, at 8:10 AM  

  • David Andrews wrote:

    "There's probably very little wrong with the foundations of psychodynamic theories (eg,psychoanalysis), but there is somethign wrong with how some people (eg, Bettelheim) have used this stuff."

    Oh come on, that Freud stuff was a complete and utter crock, and when America took it seriously it set back the study of the mind for many decades. When that stuff came into fashion, professionals who didn't cow-tow to the prevailing ideology found they suddenly had no career. An example might be Boris Sidis.

    Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

    By Blogger Lili Marlene, at 8:32 AM  

  • Hahahahaha! This was hilarious! That list of lies and that nose thing were so funny... I wonder when the Blue Fairy will come over to turn him into wood so that he can't cause any more harm...

    By Anonymous Sadderbutwisergirl, at 8:54 AM  

  • Stress is something that MUST be avoided for one on the Spectrum.

    You can't avoid stress. It's everywhere it's apart of life. Everyday is exausting and stressful for me. But how you handle and adapt to it is is far more important than avoiding it which to me is more stressful than just going through it.

    What if the Autie can't adapt? We have to consider all options and find the best solution and that means accomodations if adaptation proves to be impossible.

    Then have accomodations, but lets see if indivual can adapt and grow and evolve if he can't, then add safety net of some sort. But overloading person who is capable of adpating with accomodations might have an adverse effect

    Donna can claim the disabled parking spot quite easily and legitimately.

    of couse who cares about the man with the bum leg limping up two rows to get to the damn super market (This is sarcasm and satrical rhetoric don't take it seriously)

    I think that adaptation is important, though: that is essential for development. But there has to be a recognition ofthe adaptational limits of the individual: and then that's when the accommodations must come in. I agree here, accomodations are useful and can fill developmental gaps. But I like to exaust resources and options before we could aquire accomondations. Thats just IMO

    also.

    Not all autists know what accomodations are nesarry for them. Like myself, I don't ask for them not because I don't need them but because I never know what I need. Therefore I slog through life and fuck up a shitload and with people and loose jobs but at this point I don't know what would benifit me now. And honestly I stop caring. I have a meltdown, regress and be uncommuncative and then slowly slip out of it and go through out my day.

    Meltdowns happen, stress happens. You can't avoid it sometimes. I don't know what "accomodations" can fix me stumbling through sentences and getting violently frustrated when I get lost. I all know is had to figure shit on my own. I don't think any "cut in line" pass can fix my daily stressors.

    Because you'll TL;DR this I'm gonna not bother responding to you because I disagree and from your posts with other people if someone disagrees they are wrong and you spend five para explaining that they are wrong.

    So I am gonna save you the trouble of turn this into an oraboros conversation.

    I disagree with some of your statments and I agree with you on others.
    End of Discussion

    By Blogger NightStorm The Aspiewolf, at 4:48 PM  

  • NightStorm and Timelord: I wrote a post two years ago asking parents what they thought of disabled parking tags and other means of dealing with children who might run away or who had other behavioral issues. The responses were quite interesting.

    By Blogger abfh, at 5:06 PM  

  • "Oh come on, that Freud stuff was a complete and utter crock,"

    Fuck off!!

    His idea about a tripartite system of mind was pretty good. Many other traditions in psychology pretty much interpret the same fucking thing in other words, but - even in ethnopsychology - we can arrive at a three part system of culture-mind interaction. Stop trying to be an iconoclast you're not fucking qualified to be!

    His defence mechanism ideas were actually based on what people actually fucking did! So don't try to bullshit me on that one.

    I would defintely go on record as saying that his ideas on Oedipus and Electra complexes was utter bullshit.

    But that doesn't mean we should sling babies out in the fucking bathwater. You of all people need to fuckingn learn that! Get a fucking grip of yersel'!

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 7:40 PM  

  • Cody wrote:

    Would anyone be willing to slog through it and transcribe the most significant parts for my, and others', sake?

    I'm happy to report that Socrates is working on a transcription.

    By Blogger abfh, at 7:47 PM  

  • Night Storm, don't assume. In fact, you are the one who is insisting that you are right - and that above all else is what gets up my nose so to speak.

    You are severely underestimating the threat stress poses. Yes it's there in everyday life - but that (in part) is why we have Autistic Spectrum people to begin with. Stress causes sensory overload and leads to health problems that burden the health system when it CAN be avoided. Sure - adaption first but that is not going to work all the time. And in the case of LFA's that's going to be the majority of the time. The same is true of those who have Aspergers rather badly (and I've seen the results of that as well). It's scary and in the finish accomodations are the only way to go under those circumstances.

    And trying to end a rational discussion with what you bolded is a cheap way to say "I don't want to learn anything". Learning never stops. Not for you, not for me, not for anyone.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 7:47 PM  

  • Thanks for that link, ABFH - and as a side note I see that Best was active on your blog even back then. The thread seemed to concentrate more on actually controlling the kids - which is of interest in itself. There was one point that I didn't see (admittedly I sort of skimmed rather than fully read the thread from top to bottom) and that was Autie kids amongst cars in a car park. This might apply to LFA adults as well. Far safer to use the disabled parking space.

    It irks me more that NT's think it's fine to use the parking space for no good reason (I mean no wheelchairs or heart conditions etc etc).

    The note about people thinking that as long as you can walk you shouldn't get access to the parking spot says that we still have a long way to go in education.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 7:57 PM  

  • David Andrews wrote, regarding Freud etc:

    "His idea about a tripartite system of mind was pretty good. Many other traditions in psychology pretty much interpret the same fucking thing in other words, but - even in ethnopsychology - we can arrive at a three part system of culture-mind interaction. Stop trying to be an iconoclast you're not fucking qualified to be!"

    Your argument supports my point that the world would have been so much better by now if Siggy hadn't been born, because the very few sensible bits of his work would have been discovered anyway, and we are left with the terrible legacy of his nonsense theories and the Bettelheim/fridge mum crap and the general poisonous idea that the patient knows nothing and has no insight till she finds it through years of "therapy".

    That Freud bloke - apparently he had an impaired sense of smell and probably had amusia too. Who was he to go around telling everyone they are abnormal? The guy was barking mad.

    Regarding the thing about the disabled parking accomodation debate - if a driver can't locate a regular parking space and park their car without their brain exploding, then what the hell are they doing driving a car? Being a motorist is choc full of potentially dangerous, frustrating and stressful moments. If you can't even make your way though a car park, hand back your license!

    By Blogger Lili Marlene, at 3:26 AM  

  • NightStorm wrote:

    how you handle and adapt to it [stress] is far more important than avoiding it which to me is more stressful than just going through it.

    That is generally how I look at it too. While I acknowledge Timelord's point that avoiding stress may sometimes be necessary, my experience has been that putting a great deal of mental energy into finding ways to avoid stress only makes it worse.

    When I feel stressed about a situation, I try to focus on positive thoughts and visualize myself handling it confidently. Of course, like anything, that approach can be taken to extremes, and I am not suggesting that anyone repeatedly force themselves to do something they really can't handle. Moderation is important, as in most things.

    Here is a quote from columnist Marilyn vos Savant on the importance of expanding one's mental comfort zone:

    "Think of mental exercise like physical exercise. If you do only as much physical as you need to accomplish your day-to-day tasks, you'll soon find yourself incapable of doing anything more. And any little bit of exertion that you save -- like driving around the department store's parking lot to find the parking space that's closest to one of the doors -- narrows your physical world just that much more. If you operate only within your comfort zone, you not only do not expand it, but your comfort zone also quietly shrinks."

    By Blogger abfh, at 9:44 AM  

  • I should also mention another point often overlooked in "that which does not kill me makes me stronger" conversations, which is that accommodations are not just intended to reduce stress and discomfort. Another purpose is to make people more productive.

    That is to say, even when it's possible to do something the conventional way without any major stress or discomfort, it may still be a very inefficient and time-wasting way to go about it.

    I'd like to see the world become much more flexible and accepting of different abilities in general, such that a very wide variety of accommodations would be readily available to anyone who found them useful.

    By Blogger abfh, at 12:49 PM  

  • Sadderbutwisergirl said...

    I wonder when the Blue Fairy will come over to turn him into wood so that he can't cause any more harm...

    His wife might like that... ;-)

    By Blogger Clay, at 6:11 PM  

  • Now now, Clay, this is a family show! (LMAO)

    ABFH, I can tell you that once you have those accomodations it's well worth the effort. For myself, I guess having an interest in politics probably helps from a coping stand point. And my legal nouse has improved over the last decade as well.

    I prefer to look at the end product that the process. It's why I constantly seek support structures for those who need it, and vehemently oppose those who threaten that structure. That's the key word - structure. And the support should the structure be inherently interfered with (I cite moving house when your renting as an example of that).

    By Blogger Timelord, at 8:19 PM  

  • "Your argument supports my point that the world would have been so much better by now if Siggy hadn't been born, because the very few sensible bits of his work would have been discovered anyway, and we are left with the terrible legacy of his nonsense theories and the Bettelheim/fridge mum crap and the general poisonous idea that the patient knows nothing and has no insight till she finds it through years of 'therapy'."

    Jesus fucking Christ al-bastard-mighty! What colour's the fucking sky in your fucked up world?

    I've heard everything now.

    Evidently you're full of shit - having never actually read anything by Freud or any of the other 'classics' in psychology: all you do is talk fucking bollocks.,. and expect other people to believe you.

    Not me, pal, not me!

    Your idea that my argument proves your point makes about as much sense as poking your own fucking finger up your own bloody arsehole if you've no real reason to do so!

    Buy yourself a fucking brain and then grow a fucking IQ.

    Either that, else, shut the fuck up and stop trying to fart higher than your whinnet-ridden arse!

    If you were my student I'd fucking fail you for being too stupid to read the book properly.

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 10:23 PM  

  • You clearly have nothing to offer but profanities, Mr Andrews.

    And I have studied Freud at university level, at one time from a Feminist perspective, at another time with a very Jewish-looking lecturer with a New York-sounding accent who was totally and utterly obsessed and besotted with Freud, so I think I can say, with regard to Mr Freud and his wild and wacky theories, been there, done that, enough already!

    By Blogger Lili Marlene, at 10:55 PM  

  • "You clearly have nothing to offer but profanities, Mr Andrews"

    Maybe, maybe not; but it still pisses all over what you have to offer, which is piss and wind.

    "And I have studied Freud at university level, at one time from a Feminist perspective, at another time with a very Jewish-looking lecturer with a New York-sounding accent who was totally and utterly obsessed and besotted with Freud, so I think I can say, with regard to Mr Freud and his wild and wacky theories, been there, done that, enough already!"

    Not quite.

    It's not like either bloody view you got was in any way a fucking balanced one, so it's not surprise your own view on Freud's so bloody bollocksed. But - from someone studying at university level, I'd still have expected you to suss out the very obvious biases in either of those presentations of Freud's work and arrive at something that didn't throw babies out with bath water. Clearly you're unable to do that.

    Finding it hard to believe you were ever studying at university level. I've seen very little evidence of it in much of your posting. There's no bloody intellectuality in what you post. Just bile.

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 11:16 AM  

  • Time for a little comedy relief.

    I just 'won an award' for my caption on 'Wordless Wednesday'. I made several attempts, they're at the bottom of the page. See which one You think is funniest.

    http://djkirkby.blogspot.com/2009/07/wordless-wednesday-for-me-please-leave.html

    By Blogger Clay, at 1:41 PM  

  • I hope you all got the message that Tony Attwood phoned Ari yesterday? Isn't that what you wanted?

    I've been waiting for the press release.........

    It ain't happened yet......

    Oh, and I interview Donna on Sunday and offer my opinion that CADD is a made up heap of carp.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 4:25 PM  

  • "And I would've included all the material about his (supposed) PhD student, Barbara XXXX. (btw she's done a number on XXXXX. So in the last three months, three separate autistic men have complained about her abusive behavior. She really is a predatory menace to autistics and needs to be dealt with.)"

    Nice libel. I love the bit about 'three separate autistic men'! That's priceless!

    I also love 'needs to be dealt with'.

    xx

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:54 PM  

  • Night night.

    The preceding quotes were taken from an email sent to Ari today from a campaigner whose extremist views are well-respected within and accepted this campaign, which puts everyone in the frame for harrassment and libel.

    Night! xx

    By Blogger Barbara, at 6:24 PM  

  • "I hope you all got the message that Tony Attwood phoned Ari yesterday? Isn't that what you wanted?"

    Actually, we (apologies for using "we", but I think it's accurate in this case) want Tony to cease his endorsement of FAAAS. If the phone call achieves this, then great - but if no action comes from it, then it's just a phone call.

    By Blogger Zakkie, at 7:04 PM  

  • Barbara, if it was in an email, how did YOU get ahold of it? Or maybe it was in a "tweet" and so doesn't qualify as illegal, as it's only semi-private. Seems just as "immoral" though. Like snooping.

    Yeah, you sent this to me about 10 or 11 hours ago, and I didn't respond. I sent a copy of it to someone though, in case I ever have to prove just who is being "harrassed".

    Please do not email me again.*

    *Forget I said "Please".

    By Blogger Clay, at 7:34 PM  

  • More baseles threats about legal action from Barb. Who could have seen that coming?

    By Blogger Lili Marlene, at 1:15 AM  

  • Clay, the email was also copied in to Tony Attwood.

    I have now worked out the schedule of questions I'll ask Donna.

    I hope you'll enjoy it. My intent is to get the AS version os relationships, and destroy the Aston version. I know that's what Bronwen would have wanted. We talked about it often enough. She and Camille were my best teachers.

    The hate and suspicion have to be removed. This is not how life should be lived by any of us.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 2:51 PM  

  • Sorry, Clay, should have added that the email was copied in to Tony Attwood BY THE SENDER.

    And Clay, how did you get the email that was sent to Ari and abfh? Just asking :)

    And Lili back off. You really, as David has so rightly pointed out, don't have a clue. :)

    By Blogger Barbara, at 3:01 PM  

  • My broadcast tomorrow is dedicated to Bronwen, Alyric, who was one of the most exceptional people I have ever been honoured to meet.

    She and I went on a mission together to try to put an end to the crap that found itself on so many websites. It was a battle and a half. Even now, Aspires still carries some of that rubbish, because Linda wanted to be fair. Actually, Linda, you can't be fair to bigots and crap-shooters. You just have to blow them off the face of the earth,as and when.

    I don't apologise for what I do, and what I'm about to do. It's always been my mission to do what's honest and good.

    It may ruin my career, but hey, who cares?

    Alyric and Autism Diva, I can't ask either of you to come back. But come back in spirit, please.

    Help me stop this madness. You, both of you, cared for and guided me.I shall always allow your fairness, clarity and total honesty to overcome any of this stupidity.

    You both trusted me completely. I won't let you down. Bronwen, I respected so much your insights and your support and your coruscating intellect. I miss you more than I can say.

    I will do my best for you, and for us. All of us. Let's live in peace. I know that's what you wanted.

    x

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:23 PM  

  • How strange it is to see some of the comments on Oddpod from people who appear to be actually NOT what they post on blogs.

    Hey ho! Donna and I have been friends for years. I've not put her in the picture completely, as to burden her with this wouldn't be fair. She's an honest and good person.

    But I hope I can still do what I do, and I hope that Tony can do what he does, without this hatred.

    It's just not on. It helps no one.

    I hope you like the alternative view on CADD which I present.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 4:09 PM  

  • "But I hope I can still do what I do, and I hope that Tony can do what he does, without this hatred."

    What hatred?

    This is crazy. Tony Attwood is not alone in this. He's just chosen to be a part of the band.

    What's most important is that autistic people are given the opportunity to be critical of the people who are supposedly working in our best interest. (especially when that's not what they are doing at all)

    We have not been allowed to do this and if we are starting to have our criticisms heard, this means there is hope that we may someday have a voice.

    How does the blame now shift to us with our criticisms of how we are treated and further negatively stereotyped being seen as hateful. That's the oppressive backwards thinking that we have had enough of already.

    By Blogger Ed, at 4:46 PM  

  • "What hatred?"

    Ed, it's evident in the backwash, the twitters, the emails, the threats and the stupidity. And also in the hypocrisy. I've seen people blowing up with personal hatred on blogs and boards, which strikes me as similar to the hatred I saw from these desperate bitter women in the CADD sorority in the early 2000s.

    The balanced brilliance of bloggers like Alyric and Autism Diva has gone. They referenced everything. They cared about truth and honesty, and made sure their facts were straight.

    The CADD party was always poor on references. In fact, they referenced each other, and kinda thought that was an OK thing to do. Just like what's happening now.

    The brilliant mind wonder of Camille's and Bronwen's blogs has gone. It's a sign of the times. But it places the real voice of AS politics into the same personal gossip journalism as CADD always was. It was always crap. AS politics does not need to stoop so low. It's better than that.

    Now we have a really important issue - can those on the spectrum actually take total charge of their PR, research, and academic credentials? And can they work out their own advocacy plans for others?

    Actually, it's more than possible. It's what SHOULD happen, and CAN happen. This is what neurodiversity can manage, easily.

    But we can't do this by hating and hurting. It can't done by sucking up and spitting out. It's a process. It takes time. But we can do it, if we don't hurt.

    That's the key. We should not hate.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:46 PM  

  • "The balanced brilliance of bloggers like Alyric and Autism Diva has gone. They referenced everything. They cared about truth and honesty, and made sure their facts were straight."

    Those two weren't about liberating just themselves and that's not what liberation is about. If you don't like the current struggle and those who are currently part of it then I don't see much point in you contributing.

    The struggle for autistic liberation didn't start with anyone in this century and it's not likely to end that way either.

    The best any blogger or any advocate can do for autistic people is give us a voice and respect the contributions we make. Diva and Alyeric both did that.

    If you don't have that same admiration and respect for what others are doing as they did, don't blame others for hating you. You're just standing in the way of progress and others can't afford for you or anyone else to do that.

    By Blogger Ed, at 6:39 PM  

  • Barbara who the feck are ye?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:58 PM  

  • Barbara, I asked you for links to this abuse of Tony Attwood, and you have steadily refused to give.

    So give - or don't be believed.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 8:35 PM  

  • For anyone who needs a transcript of the interview:
    Transcript: Donna Williams's interview of Tony Attwood.

    By Anonymous Tera, at 4:22 PM  

  • "
    The best any blogger or any advocate can do for autistic people is give us a voice and respect the contributions we make. Diva and Alyeric both did that.

    If you don't have that same admiration and respect for what others are doing as they did, don't blame others for hating you. You're just standing in the way of progress and others can't afford for you or anyone else to do that."

    No sorry, I don't have that same admiration and respect, and 'hating' , like where did that word come from?

    There is no space for hate if neurodiversity is to progress. And to be perfectly frank, I've had enough of hate to last me the short lifetime I have left. I wonder if Bronwen felt the same?

    SOME say the world will end in fire,
    Some say in ice.
    From what I’ve tasted of desire
    I hold with those who favor fire.
    But if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To know that for destruction ice
    Is also great
    And would suffice.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 7:17 PM  

  • I don't recognize any sorrow in what you're saying or doing at all. I don't see you having any interest in understanding more than you do.

    I'm sure that you will continue to show disrespect and you will continue to receive it. You won't be involved with people you don't respect and hopefully they will see your attitude clearly enough that they won't want to be involved with you either.

    By Blogger Ed, at 7:36 PM  

  • Barbara, I asked you for links to this abuse of Tony Attwood, and you have steadily refused to give.

    And you have refused to give - so I don't believe there has been any online abuse of Tony Attwood.

    Kindly do not slander the activist movement thank you.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 8:24 AM  

  • "I don't recognize any sorrow in what you're saying or doing at all. I don't see you having any interest in understanding more than you do.

    I'm sure that you will continue to show disrespect and you will continue to receive it. You won't be involved with people you don't respect and hopefully they will see your attitude clearly enough that they won't want to be involved with you either."


    Ed, thanks for your words of wisdom.

    Tonight I was visited, for the first time for five years by the daughter of the prostitute who lived at number 23 in our street.I live at number 29. Her mum eventually married an illegal immigrant, and became a princess, as you can do if you marry a Sikh.

    Carol, her daughter (she also had four sons), was 12 when I moved in here. She was 15 when she first got pregnant. I filmed, with her agreement, her explanation of why she wanted to keep her child, and the film was shown at an international conference for counsellors.

    Carol is now 33. Clever, and articulate, and honest and kind, and covered in tattoos and piercings, she is still my friend. She has had seven children with five different fathers. She survived hell.

    Sometimes, sadly, I have to compare her life, in which she was continually raped by an elder brother, and in which she had to deal with her mother's chosen profession, with the self-pity I see here. Carol, like anyone on the spectrum, isn't likely to recover or have a 'cure'. She is about to emigrate to the USA to find 'happiness' with some internet freak.

    I love her to bits, and she loves me and my son, because we were the only people she ever met who didn't disrespect her, because of her background, and who just liked her, a lot.

    We couldn't, and can't, save her life.

    But at least she knows that we're her friends. We cried on each other's shoulders tonight, as she knows the shit I'm in, and I know the shit she's in.

    No judgement. No hassle. Just pure acceptance. Equality of experience, and caring.

    I get that from the abused daughter of a prostitute. Full understanding of who I am and what I do.

    I do not get ANY of that from the autism community.

    There is no kindness.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 7:41 PM  

  • Barbara,

    I don't equate the bad experiences of an autistic person to them not ever "recovering" from autism and the recognition they deserve for that.I understand the logic but I don't think it's productive.

    It's difficult to compare one persons suffering to another and how they should or shouldn't deal with it.

    My words weren't meant to be wise and they weren't kind. I apologize that they weren't kind.

    They were in direct response to how I understood what you were expressing at the time and I may have misunderstood that. They weren't in relation to who you are or what you do. I don't know anything about that.

    About the autistic community I think it's a bad idea to characterize them all as unkind (besides of course that I don't think they are).

    However else autism affects people we have a great deal of challenges due to negative stereotypes. Characterizing the whole group that way makes everyone's struggle that much harder.

    By Blogger Ed, at 8:36 PM  

  • Ed, I would add that whenever people are unkind to us - we will be unkind right back. Barbara is now trying to play on our emotions to make us back off. I'm sure if this Carol knew what Barbara was doing on this blog (not being open and playing games and being unkind) she would be shocked and disappointed.

    You reap what you sow, Barbara. Remember that.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 7:35 PM  

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