Whose Planet Is It Anyway?

Monday, July 20, 2009

Cassandra Promoter Punked

I recently learned via e-mail that a Cassandra group leader was drawn into a long and very revealing conversation by way of a prank phone call from a neurodiversity supporter. The woman who made the call pretended that she thought she might be suffering from CADD because of her husband's undiagnosed Asperger syndrome. (In fact, he is clearly not autistic.)

She accurately described problems at various times in their marriage and her feelings of stress and depression. The Cassandra counselor assured her that all of her experiences were very typical of women in relationships with AS men and that there was no doubt her husband (whom the counselor had, of course, never met) had AS.

Like all such men, he was incapable of understanding his wife's feelings because of his disorder, the Cassandra group leader declared authoritatively. It wasn't his fault of course, but he had no empathy. That was the reason for all her suffering. To get on a path to healing, she would have to learn more about CADD and start taking back her life from the havoc caused by her husband's tragic disorder.

And of course, there would be many workshops, books, DVDs, etc., available to help her on this long journey, all quite affordably priced…

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51 Comments:

  • "All quite affordably priced."

    Which means, of course, that the promoters of CADD may simply be scammers looking for easy marks.

    Although they may be sincere, too. Who knows?

    By Blogger Anemone, at 10:40 AM  

  • Good post, which reflects some of my grave concerns on the CADD matter, if the email is true. But I've heard similar stories before, so it very well could be.

    You might like to check out the Slater-Walker's website. Today, they put out their own statement on CADD, with which I am total agreement

    By Blogger Barbara, at 11:42 AM  

  • "When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

    CADD "therapists" have one tool, but it's more like an axe. Take their money, then split 'em up.

    By Blogger Clay, at 11:43 AM  

  • So the rats are leaving the sinking ship, now there's no percentage in it anymore. w00t!(NOT)

    Mary-Anne

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:21 PM  

  • Hey, abfh, how come you didn't get a name-check in Jean le Plus Mauvais (et le plus petit)'s 'Neurodiversity's Dumb Broads', and I did?!

    Maybe he fancies you! Smear yourself with mercury to protect your chastity!
    :)

    By Blogger Barbara, at 12:56 PM  

  • Barbara, I rather suspect that he's trying to find out if he can annoy you enough to get some amusement value out of it, and that he does not write about me because he knows I don't waste my time reading his blog.

    By Blogger abfh, at 2:08 PM  

  • Hi abfh - I've been his enemy since the AWARES online conference in 2005 (I think). I hadn't heard, in the UK, of this mercury madness, because we were all into MMR madness.

    Camille, Bronwen, and I laid into him so hard that he went away with his tail between his legs. He was so slaughtered by three very intelligent and gobby and defiant women that he just couldn't cope. His brain went into meltdown.

    It's an encounter I treasure, as it gave me several of the best online friends I've ever met. Including the two wisest women I've known, there was also Daedalus, and J Kenneth Wickiser. It was like massive brain against brawn. And we won. And the little prat hated it.

    Great! Now JBR is too far under my radar to bother about. He's lower than a nematode worm. But I really do worry about his lovely son.

    Anyway, can I kind of thank ASAN in an angry kind of way? Because before this nasty and very personal campaign against Tony (and if you doubt that it's personal, just call on my stack of documentation. I'm not on the spectrum, but I keep everything filed and in order) I'd never got my ass into gear to DO something about the vileness of CADD, which I oppose with every part of my being.

    If this campaign hadn't been directed at Tony, I wouldn't have had the motivation to actually 'come out' against this crap.

    As it is, I've managed to get a group of my friends together, to speak up against it as a team, without any rancour. Just intellectually and honestly. Some of us despise the entire CADD industry - and that's what it is. It's a scam. Quackery.

    I had hoped to do this in a way that would hurt none of the people I value and hold in high regard, and know, and understand. That hasn't been possible.

    I'd also hoped to do this in a way which wouldn't alienate me from other valued friends. Again, that hasn't been possible. Wars hurt people. And that should never happen.

    We should never hurt others, big time. Every one of us hurts others, daily. It just happens. We're all different. And then we make up. That's human.

    So I'm kinda grateful for the campaign that has made me speak up and get on my soapbox again! Yet I'm kinda sorry about the people I thought were my friends, and who turned on me. It's sad. Shit happens. And I'm really sorry that people I respected have turned on the person I respect and know the best - Tony Attwood. It's schadenfreude to enjoy the suffering of others.

    abfh, you have my respect. You've earned it. Some have lost it. And I'm really sad about that.

    Jean le tout petit, never had it. :)

    Thank you for bearing with me.diat

    By Blogger Barbara, at 3:05 PM  

  • Barbara wrote:

    can I kind of thank ASAN in an angry kind of way?

    ...If this campaign hadn't been directed at Tony, I wouldn't have had the motivation to actually 'come out' against this crap.


    Well, I'd have to say that was one of the intended effects of the petition, getting more public discussion going. If it had been a petition to Maxine Aston and Karen Rodman, they would have just laughed and gone on about their business, and nobody would have paid much attention. People wouldn't have started to think that maybe it was really possible to put an end to the CADD scam.

    By Blogger abfh, at 3:41 PM  

  • "People wouldn't have started to think that maybe it was really possible to put an end to the CADD scam."

    Yeah I know that,. But it's ended up hurting the kindest man I know. Aggressively.

    And all you had to do was to ask.

    I sorted Carol Grigg.

    :)

    By Blogger Barbara, at 4:15 PM  

  • Barbara, he was asked several times; and even now, he still hasn't cut his ties with FAAAS and Aston. Had he done so, I am sure that recent events would have gone much differently. I would have been glad to report on such a positive development, if it had happened, and I am sure that other bloggers would have done the same.

    By Blogger abfh, at 4:30 PM  

  • "he still hasn't cut his ties with FAAAS and Aston. Had he done so, I am sure that recent events would have gone much differently."

    You know what, love, no one does that on DEMAND. It just doesn't work. Honestly, and from the bottom of my heart I tell you this.No one, ever in this world, does something on demand.

    If you ASK, you get a different response.

    I know that this may sound silly to you, but as Temple Grandin and Sean Barron say, these are among the unwritten rules of social relationships. Ask, and you may get, demand and you'll get defence barriers.

    That's the way it works. It's kindness and diplomacy which oil the wheels. Some do it naturally. Some have to learn. It's like a computer. I don't do it naturally, I have to learn. And I'm grateful - actually more than grateful, I'm dependent, on people on the spectrum helping me out. I depend on spectrum people guiding me and sorting me. And I have no difficulties in asking for the help I know they can provide. I put up no barriers. I am so gratified that some can take time out to offer help.

    Yesterday, a poster, hamster, on AFF said that aspies don't need people like me. They can cope without the help of non-autistics and I'm kind of redundant.

    So I said, take over my case-load then, what I do for free. What help can the AS community give to an AS 18-year-old who can't come out of his bedroom, and has to have his entire education done through his bedroom door? What help can they give his mum, who is clearly Aspie but has a diagnosis of Borderline, so no one believes her? He depends on her. She is broken. They both need help and they're not getting any. They are dying.

    These are the cases I try to deal with on a daily basis. I would love the AS community to come in and man the lifeboats, and save my families. I currently have 10 autistic families that I'm working with, pro bono, and so far no autistics we've contacted feel that they can help any of these people.

    So yeah, hamster, let's please live in an ideal world where people on the spectrum actually take over the role some of us have to play. That would be really nice.

    Meanwhile, kick us in the teeth, why don't you? Hurt us, why don't you? Believe the rubbish you hear about us, why don't you? If that makes you happy.

    We are all in this human race. It hurts. Big time. It bloody hurts.
    Get it?

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:56 PM  

  • "You know what, love, no one does that on DEMAND. It just doesn't work. Honestly, and from the bottom of my heart I tell you this.No one, ever in this world, does something on demand."

    And if I were to ask you nicely, here and now, to let the various aspie organisations and blogs go about this in there own way without all this over emotional and frankly quiet patronising tone that you adopt, would you stop?

    Or does it genuinly take the force of mobilised public opinion to do that.

    I tend to believe the latter.

    Have you ever seen a political campaign that is actually polite?

    As someone who has found themselves under attack before now, sure it hurts, sure it is unpleasant, but that is not the point, it is the issue that is at stake, that is the ultimate ethical question.

    It is not enough for Tony Attwood to continue to be equivocal on this, and to make the sort of half hearted and 'political' comments that he did on Donna's interview.

    That was out and out insulting, and if you didn't feel the insults, well you are not amongst the accused in this Cassandra debate are you?

    Larry

    By Blogger laurentius rex, at 6:47 PM  

  • "That was out and out insulting, and if you didn't feel the insults, well you are not amongst the accused in this Cassandra debate are you?"

    No, and never have been, and nor have you, Larry.

    It's nowt to do with you. What do you know about living with a partner? Ever?

    So back off.

    OK?

    I thought you were off on your jollies? Happy wilderness trecks.

    All love

    x

    By Blogger Barbara, at 7:44 PM  

  • Phew, let's leave the Larry debate behind, shall we, or I'll get in a right old state over the scam he tried to put over on me at Penguin?

    You know, some people latch on to those they think have a 'name' and it really gets me very cross.

    There's a football, as Donna says, that some people play.

    Anyway, I put up posts in French on Jean le Trop Petits's website, and they got whooshed.

    It's a shame that he hasn't got a European outlook. I suspect he hasn't got any outlook at all. Merely an inlook. He's just checking his thermometer to see if the mercury's rising.

    :)

    By Blogger Barbara, at 7:57 PM  

  • Larry, let's take this to email, before I get really cross with you.

    It has no place on any board.

    OK?

    By Blogger Barbara, at 8:09 PM  

  • The standards for people who help autistic people are quite low. The supposedly "charitable" behavior that comes from the population of "providers" who then see themselves as a group that gets little gratitude can also encourage them to see those they provide for as not worthy of much of anything. More abuse is often the result.

    There are no autistics that are not hurt by the campaigns that negatively stereo-type us. Especially the ones like this that negatively stereo-type how our relationships will be when we have relationships.

    If someones so-called empathy for a group is limited by the a overall view that helpers don't get the gratitude they deserve for their efforts, they are helping a group that doesn't deserve the negative treatment this attitude then prompts them to give.

    By Blogger Ed, at 8:46 PM  

  • "And if I were to ask you nicely, here and now, to let the various aspie organisations and blogs go about this in there own way without all this over emotional and frankly quiet patronising tone that you adopt, would you stop?"

    I'd like to know this as well!
    Barbara's histrionics are abominably tedious.

    By Blogger Gonzo, at 9:25 PM  

  • I respect the work done by non-autistic allies, and do not consider it redundant at all. However, when such efforts come with the strings of condescension and insult attached, more damage is the result. The energy spent weighing any "good" done against how much we are admonished for failure to appreciate this adds to the cost.

    By Blogger Bev, at 9:36 PM  

  • Barbara, Im getting very cross with YOU.

    Who do you think you are pushing around?
    And as for you “sorting Carol Grigg out”?
    Who are you kidding?

    The content of her web site is just as abusive as ever.
    And the harm she is causing families is also just as serious as ever.
    Have you ever attended one of her hate groups?

    As for her fake insincere attempt at an apology?
    It fools no one.
    At least we didn’t think it did!

    Have YOU been “fooled” Barbara?
    If anyone is owed an apology by Carol Grigg it’s the families she has harmed.
    Are you aware of any of that Barbara?

    I can tell you for starters she needs to make a sincere apology to Wendy Perret and her child in Sydney, at the very least.
    Are you aware of the pain and devastation she has brought to that family alone?
    Not to mention numerous others.
    Carol Grigg makes Jennings look like a saint for the cause of Autistic rights.

    If you haven’t heard the stories of pain from the victims themselves, you are not in any place to say you have “sorted Carol Grigg”, or anyone.

    I have been a long time fan of Tony Atwood, and am disgusted and disillusioned that he has remained silent regarding these very serious issues.

    If you want to contact the victims, try asking Tony for the contact details. I understand he has some of them.

    It’s also my understanding, that after “asking nicely” the victims are also still waiting for Tony to respond and even want to hear of pain caused by Carol Grigg, and the other Cassandra promoters like her he associates with.

    When I read that Carol Grigg has respectfully and sincerely apologized to Wendy and her daughter, and ceases adding to the pain she has already caused her family, I will begin to believe Carol Grigg is at the start of “being sorted”!

    So Barbara stop making ridiculous claims and making even more people very cross with YOU.

    Jonathan Cartwright A.C.T.

    By Anonymous J.Cartwright, at 10:49 PM  

  • I've seen some disgusting things, but Barbara's reply to Laurentius is kinda 3 week old panty-liner disgusting.

    Take it to email? Why so the world can't withness your filth?

    Yuk! Puke!

    Mary-Anne

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:16 AM  

  • "I've seen some disgusting things, but Barbara's reply to Laurentius is kinda 3 week old panty-liner disgusting."

    I've known Larry for seven years, quite closely. He knows what it's about.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 11:33 AM  

  • "I can tell you for starters she needs to make a sincere apology to Wendy Perret and her child in Sydney, at the very least.
    Are you aware of the pain and devastation she has brought to that family alone?
    Not to mention numerous others.
    Carol Grigg makes Jennings look like a saint for the cause of Autistic rights."

    I've heard versions of the Wendy Perret story from a variety of sources, including this one. There are a number of different views, as there always are in these situations.

    Every view could be valid. No view could be valid. Or maybe it's very complex and all views are valid. Who knows?

    But the phenomenology of real life, not the internet, is the only way to validate or authenticate anything.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 3:22 PM  

  • "histrionics are abominably tedious."

    Yes, Gonzo, aren't they? :)

    By Blogger Barbara, at 3:24 PM  

  • Are we not allowed to mention John Tomegatherion's name these days lest we accidentally summon him from the vasty deeps?

    I'll tell you this much Barbara, subtlety is entirely lost on him,
    I wonder if he can be 'recovered'?

    By Blogger laurentius rex, at 5:03 PM  

  • "I've heard versions of the Wendy Perret story from a variety of sources, including this one. There are a number of different views, as there always are in these situations"

    Hi Barbara.
    You are informed and in touch with what's going on more than most seem to be. There is enough punking going on around here already. So who is Wendy Peret?
    What can you tell us?
    -Tammie

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:28 PM  

  • "Are we not allowed to mention John Tomegatherion's name these days lest we accidentally summon him from the vasty deeps?"

    Love you, Larry, as you know! Gave you a good thumbs-up to Mitzi a couple of weeks ago when I was in Brum. I said you knew your stuff inside out, and that you're a very clever bunny. She had some great things to say about you.

    But can you stop winding me up? And I promise I won't do it to you. Well, I'll try!

    For everyone's info, Larry and I know each other fairly well in real life. And we share certain philosophical and political beliefs. But he drives me to distraction, and I drive him to distraction. And he pssed me off, big time, and I pss him off. It's like, normal, in the UK.

    Some in the US don't understand this kind of relationship. It's OK folks, nothing to worry about. Put that panty liner back in. And if you don't understand it, don't bloody sniff it.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:44 PM  

  • Is that Honey Pie's ex? It's about time the guy, if he ever existed, had his chance to sing his song. I can do Witch. Teach me the spell Laurentius.

    Mary-Anne

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:44 PM  

  • "So who is Wendy Peret?"

    A woman with an ex relationship grievance. Nuff said. Cos that's all I'm willing to divulge, as it's the only thing I know is actually true.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:48 PM  

  • "I've heard versions of the Wendy Perret story from a variety of sources,

    " ...including this one".
    Do you mean this blogg?


    I've done a search of all the blogs and posts here and found no mention of Wendy Peret. Is this something to do with CAD?
    -Tammmie

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:39 PM  

  • "
    I've done a search of all the blogs and posts here and found no mention of Wendy Peret. Is this something to do with CAD?"


    Who knows? Check it out. But not on the internet. It's unreliable, in blog format, or message boards, as a source of authentic information.

    But it's fascinating for Chinese whispers.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 7:33 PM  

  • It sounds like the Carol Grigg’s version of the “story” in her own defence, is being supported by Barbara.
    Being a very cruel and unjust minimisation of the true facts being casualy dismissed as a mere "relationship grievance"?

    It's rather clear Carol Grigg has definitely got “BARBARA SORTED”!

    Better get your facts "sorted out" Barbara.

    -Jonathan Cartwright. A.C.T.

    By Anonymous J Cartwright, at 7:45 PM  

  • "It sounds like the Carol Grigg’s version of the “story” in her own defence, is being supported by Barbara.
    Being a very cruel and unjust minimisation of the true facts being casualy dismissed as a mere "relationship grievance"?

    It's rather clear Carol Grigg has definitely got “BARBARA SORTED”!

    Better get your facts "sorted out" Barbara.

    -Jonathan Cartwright. A.C.T."

    How did you work that out from what I said?

    Are you a nutter?

    I actually said that it was impossible to work out what is going on.

    Can you bear that in mind?

    By Blogger Barbara, at 8:02 PM  

  • Barbara, tell us, have you spoken with Carol Grigg on this?

    By Anonymous J Cartwright, at 8:20 PM  

  • Barbara, You said;
    “Who is Wendy Perret” - "a woman with an ex relationship grievance. That's the only part I know is true"

    Why have you now deleted your comment after calling someone else a “nutter" for stating what is clear from what you have said yourself?
    That’s Carol Griggs “version” of the story.
    So who are YOU calling a "nutter"?

    -Jonathan Cartwright,
    getting VERY CROSS with Barbara!

    By Anonymous J Cartwright, at 8:40 PM  

  • "Barbara, tell us, have you spoken with Carol Grigg on this?"

    No.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 9:16 AM  

  • I sorted Carol Grigg.

    So how did you do that if you never spoke to her, Barbara?

    By Blogger Timelord, at 8:14 PM  

  • " Timelord said...

    I sorted Carol Grigg.

    So how did you do that if you never spoke to her, Barbara?"


    And who have you ever 'spoken to' Phil?

    And who has 'spoken' to you?

    By Blogger Barbara, at 7:58 PM  

  • Answer my question - unless you have something to hide.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 7:10 AM  

  • Maybe Honey Pie has just enough sense not to be gossiping about child protection when the HHS is stalking the family. Maybe HP's gonna pick a fight with the wrong girl of the wrong man, one of these days.

    Mary-Anne

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:15 AM  

  • Timelord said to Barbara
    "Answer my question - unless you have something to hide."


    Barbara. How about this.
    Have you "exchanged words" with Carol Grigg on this.

    By Anonymous Jonathan Cartwright, at 7:10 PM  

  • " Answer my question - unless you have something to hide"

    I never have anything to hide, if I'm asked the right question.

    I always say that the secret of high intelligence isn't the ability to answer questions, but the ability to ask them, perfectly.cla

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:09 PM  

  • "Barbara. How about this.
    Have you "exchanged words" with Carol Grigg on this."

    No. Want to try again?

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:11 PM  

  • "I sorted Carol Grigg.

    So how did you do that if you never spoke to her, Barbara?"

    Of course I communicated with her.

    And ASAN took the credit, although they'd done nothing.

    As a high-end journo by profession, I think that's a lie.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 5:14 PM  

  • I never have anything to hide, if I'm asked the right question.

    I always say that the secret of high intelligence isn't the ability to answer questions, but the ability to ask them, perfectly.cla


    That's no excuse - at all. I asked a perfectly simple question and you ducked it completely. Way to be responsible Barbara.

    And please provide evidence that ASAN "took the credit" for your "communications" with Carol Grigg.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 9:22 AM  

  • "The Cassandra counselor assured her that all of her experiences were very typical of women in relationships with AS men and that there was no doubt her husband (whom the counselor had, of course, never met) had AS."

    Just can't get over this issue. A woman with no diagnostic skill or discernable training making a diagnosis over the telephone without seeing the person being diagnosed? I wouldn't actually do that. It's not possible like that!

    Has anybody contacted any authorities?

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 3:17 AM  

  • David, no, I don't think anybody has. These people are not real professionals of any sort. They're basically salespeople and have no licenses to revoke.

    By Blogger abfh, at 9:12 AM  

  • ABFH, if they are practising in psychology without a license, that's a violation of medical laws. They can be reported for that.

    By Blogger Timelord, at 7:28 PM  

  • I just found this topic and would like to comment on what I observe here.
    This is a good comment by Barbara; quoted below.
    I would tend to agree with Barbara on the second paragraph.
    And the first paragraph is, in contrast is an enlightening and honest confession.


    Response from Barbara;
    “I never have anything to hide, if I'm asked the right question.

    I always say that the secret of high intelligence isn't the ability to answer questions, but the ability to ask them, perfectly.cla”



    On the other hand, in response to the second paragraph.
    It’s also considered the secret weapon of a manipulative verbal abuser, and compulsive liar to “give an honest answer only when asked the right question”.
    It’s an abusive technique used in mind control and cohesive persuasion. It’s also a sign of narcissism.

    I don’t mean to offend anyone, however there are some dishonest word games being played here, and it really seems the truth regarding the issue being discussed is being avoided in a rather obvious and unintelligent way.


    I have no idea who is sorted or not sorted, but Barbara says no words were used in the process?
    So that rules out email, Snail mail, or MSN. All of which use words to communicate.
    So what way did the said "sorting" communication take place?

    Barbara mentions “Chinese whispers”, but that uses words as well.
    This playground game isn’t even fun.

    My guess is that something IS being hidden.
    Do I win? : )

    Andy

    By Anonymous Andy, at 3:10 AM  

  • "I sorted Carol Grigg”; claimed Barbara, in an overly self confident persuasive manner.

    Though none of ABFH’s blog followers looked at all convinced.

    So how did you do that if you never spoke to her, Barbara?" enquired Timelord skeptically.

    "Of course I communicated with her";
    Red faced Barbara is finally forced to confess.

    Then after being backed into a corner, and caught out, her wounded inner child betrays her, as Barbara’s mask of prideful condescension gives way.
    Her lip begins to quiver, as her voice becomes excited and high pitched. Poor Barbara regresses to a frightened six year old little girl.
    Blurting out desperately in a transparent vein attempt to shift the focus of fault and blame away from herself, Barbara exclaims defensively;

    " …And ASAN took the credit, although they'd done nothing.
    As a high-end journo by profession, I think THAT’S a LIE"


    Settle down little Barb.
    No one mentioned the word "Lie".
    Are you feeling guilty?
    Let me help you, Barb. It’s simple.
    Your “throwing off”, by accusing an opponent of your own offence is called “projection”.
    It happens when people are hiding something.
    Watching for it is the secret of being able to tell when a narcissist is lying.
    It's perfectly normal for professional high-ended Journos caught in such predicaments.

    Don’t worry. We won’t tell your mom this time, if you will just say sorry, begin to tell the truth and promise not to tell and more fibs.

    By Anonymous Alfred B, at 5:14 AM  

  • "David, no, I don't think anybody has. These people are not real professionals of any sort. They're basically salespeople and have no licenses to revoke."

    Indeed, no licences to lose, but they do have a problem of practising a clinical profession without a licence, and that can lead to legal sanctions.

    By Blogger David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction), at 5:46 PM  

  • "
    Don’t worry. We won’t tell your mom this time, if you will just say sorry, begin to tell the truth and promise not to tell and more fibs."


    LOL - that's just bloody funny!

    I love it when people make psychomacrame out of a single piece of cotton.

    By Blogger Barbara, at 7:11 PM  

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