Whose Planet Is It Anyway?: Cassandra Cult Victim Speaks Out

Sunday, March 01, 2009

Cassandra Cult Victim Speaks Out

I wrote a post in September discussing the phony Cassandra disorder invented by Maxine Aston and perpetuated by various hate groups. According to the Cassandra cultists, being in a relationship with an autistic person causes a depressive disorder. It's a convenient excuse for vengeful ex-spouses to blame everything in their lives on their autistic former partner, and quite lucrative for Aston and other unethical counselors who profit from allegedly treating the nonexistent disorder.

Recently, I received an e-mail from a woman who described in detail—from her own firsthand experience—the bigotry and hypocrisy of the Cassandra crowd, and the wreckage they cause to marriages and families. I have edited the letter slightly for clarity and to remove personally identifying details; otherwise, the letter as posted below has not been altered.

My marriage was broken up by a woman who runs an aspergers "partners support group." She convinced my husband I have aspergers syndrome and encouraged him to leave me and move in with her. He is suffering from Cassandra disease, she has told him. I had no idea he was involved with her in any way until he announced to me on the phone from her house that he had decided to end our marriage for a woman he claimed at the time to have just met, and move in with her. But it turns out they had a long term secret involvement.

I have NEVER had a diagnosis of aspergers, and have since been told by professionals that I do not have aspergers at all. Even been asked by professionals, "who on earth put that idea into your head?" But even if I did have, this behaviour is very very wrong. Before his involvement with her everyone, including me, thought we had an ideal perfect marriage. So you see why this turn around all came as such a traumatic shock to me. And why I'm so devastated by this adultery and family devastation. What has happened (and is still ongoing) is atrocious and caused me and our daughter so much pain and devastation.

They have even gone as far as to claim I left him. So many lies have been told about me in top of all the pain and the cruel betrayal. She is extremely manipulative and has an enormous amount of control over my husband. I find this woman's actions with my husband to be highly unethical. She claims he was a member of her partners support group and she was supporting and helping him to get out of his marriage due to aspergers.

We had NO marital issues that he had ever spoken of regarding me, before she convinced him I was "defective" and he would be better off with her being an "NT." She refers to herself and my husband as "NTs" and uses terms like "we" are like this, and "they" (people with aspergers) are like that. And "they don't understand how we normal people think" or "not normal like us."

She divorced her own husband after he had a new diagnosis of aspergers, breaking up a long-term marriage and separating the children from their father. He is now happily married to a woman who appreciates him just as he is and for who he is. From what I have heard he is a good man; however she says he wouldn't agree to the treatment she wanted him to undergo after she gave him an ultimatum. I think she found it shocking to suddenly know he was considered to be "defective" being a person with aspergers.

My heart is still so broken as is our daughter's, as even though this is terrible behaviour of my husband with this woman, I still love him very much as I always have. Our family and marriage are shattered. He told me on the phone when he announced to me about being with her, that she had "counselled him" to divorce me. She claims that she is not advising people to end their marriages... but THIS IS NOT TRUE! Privately she advises people to do such things.

She has gotten a lot of support from being linked to other sites, and people tend to find her and think she is some sort of expert, as she presents that way. She makes some very broad and sweeping unfounded statements and conclusions. I so believe this needs to be exposed for what's going on. This woman even advises partners of people with aspergers not to have children with their spouses, lest they bring "another one" into the world! I see her as not unlike Hitler, but you would never dream it from how she presents. Sounds so sympathetic to the aspergers cause, or "supportive" of aspergers marriages. Please believe me SHE IS NOT! She is a self seeking fraud and a very good actor with her own personal agenda.

Support groups should not be hate groups for NT "victims" who empower each other in abuse of and play cruel mind games with their unsuspecting partners. This woman encourages the "partners" in her group to NOT disclose to the spouses they are attending her hate groups. I know this for a fact, and believe encouraging deception and secrets between marrieds is dangerous to the marriage and detrimental to any real marital intimacy. She runs her group like it's a domestic violence victims group. Very unhealthy. I believe it's rather serious to treat a certain group of people as if they are subhuman or defective, and not even deserving of their own spouses, who loved them enough to marry them in the first place (you would think).

There's much more to this very sad story, than I can put here right now...

Labels: bigotry, Cassandra scam

102 Comments:

Holy fucking shit... this situation is fucked up on so many levels that it's not easy to know where to start!

I'll start at the beginning:

"My marriage was broken up by a woman who runs an aspergers 'partners support group'. She convinced my husband I have aspergers syndrome and encouraged him to leave me and move in with her. He is suffering from Cassandra disease, she has told him."

My first question: is the woman running this group actually qualified to make any sort of diagnosis?

My second one: has she been asked to assess and - if presenting - actually diagnose this 'Cassandra syndrome/disease'?

My third one: if she is in any way qualified to do these first to things, what the fuck is she doing breaking all ethical and conduct codes for practitioners by getting someone who is essentially in a client role to move in with her?!

"So you see why this turn around all came as such a traumatic shock to me. And why I'm so devastated by this adultery and family devastation. What has happened (and is still ongoing) is atrocious and caused me and our daughter so much pain and devastation."

It would indeed be a traumatic thing to have this happen, both to the woman writing and to her daughter. And - because there is no such recognised diagnostic entity as 'Cassandra syndrome/disease' - the claim made by the woman running the group was a false one, meaning that this transition has no therapeutic purpose whatsoever!

"She is extremely manipulative and has an enormous amount of control over my husband."

Evidently.

"I find this woman's actions with my husband to be highly unethical."

Good reason to find them that way: that's what they are.

"She claims he was a member of her partners support group and she was supporting and helping him to get out of his marriage due to aspergers."

There is absolutely fuck all reason to 'help' anyone out of a marriage with any person on the basis of an autistic spectrum condition!

"She divorced her own husband after he had a new diagnosis of aspergers, breaking up a long-term marriage and separating the children from their father. He is now happily married to a woman who appreciates him just as he is and for who he is."

There's some background to her 'saviour' complex, no?

"He told me on the phone when he announced to me about being with her, that she had 'counselled him' to divorce me. She claims that she is not advising people to end their marriages... but THIS IS NOT TRUE! Privately she advises people to do such things."

If he's saying she's 'counselled him' to divorce this woman writing, then the chances are that it is true... she HAS counselled the man to do exactly that. And that is definitely NOT any sort of professional practise. Does the woman running the group have any qualification to act as a counsellor? Is she in any organisation that oversees the practice of professionals in her field? They'd be my first point of contact.

"Support groups should not be hate groups for NT 'victims' who empower each other in abuse of and play cruel mind games with their unsuspecting partners. This woman encourages the 'partners' in her group to NOT disclose to the spouses they are attending her hate groups."

Indeed they shouldn't. And nor should the people in them be advised not to disclose their attendance at such groups.

I'm already suspecting that this group-leader woman's earlier experience has actually invalidated her preconception and prejudices about who her ex-husband was (in terms of being an Asperger-autistic man, and having the right to not be forced to seek treatment for something that is - essentially not something that actually needs treatment). And now, the group leader seems hell bent on making people pay for her prejudices... and making trouble for the (only suspected, in some cases) Asperger-autistic spouse and any children that may have resulted from the relationship.

The group leader should be prevented from causing further damage to people's lives as soon as possible. And she should have to undergo an assessment for a narcissistic personality problem. She's no saviour, but the way she sees herself is definitely a narcissistic perspective on herself.

Reading about the fact that such as situation as the one described above exists has made me feel physically sick.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 9:10 PM
"This woman even advises partners of people with aspergers not to have children with their spouses, lest they bring 'another one' into the world!"

And that sort of thinking is neither professional nor ethical. It's evil.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 9:13 PM
Poor woman.

I second David's recommendation that she contact whatever regulatory body (if any --- I don't think you need to be any sort of licensed professional in order to run a support group) has licensed Cassandra Lady.

If there turns out to be no such oversight, and she's up for it, she might consider telling her story to a local newspaper. Maybe the public outcry could put Cassandra Lady out of business.

By Lindsay, at 10:07 PM
David

I tried reasoning with the women on aspartners months ago. They actually let my posts through. I used reason and logic with these women. No such luck!!

These are unsavory narcisstic human beings all of them.

This woman named Rosek13 is greatful that she will be able to smoke in her house in front of her son. This is what she listed as one of the things she's greatful for when her aspie husband leaves.

What about the child's sensitivities? Second hand smoke is more dangerous than first hand smoke. But this unsavory human being does not give one diddly squat.

This makes me so angry.

These women on aspartners only care about their bullshit social status and not the health, lives, and happiness of their respective family members.

David, Look at the comments made by these cassandra women from aspartners. The one comment by anon from aspartners made me lost it and meltdown. I was wrong for that, ABFH, and I apologize for that. I have a long way to go still.

By Anonymous, at 11:02 PM
David and ABFH

The truth is these aspartners remind me of my fiance. The woman is trying to make me into something I am not. She says she's not but she is.

This is why I reacted so strongly to that anon woman on the other post about cassandra.

My fiance thinks and does things in this fast paced and ad-hoc manner. There is no routine with this woman. She has admitted to me that she does not want to be bound by any system and she wants to be flexible. She demands I be flexible which I cannot do. I need a routine. I need to know exactly what she wants from me but the woman expects me to be a mind reader.

I am made to do mystery shops but I can't do them because I cannot remember the detailed events that took place after I am done. I did find a workaround. I have to totally fudge the report and the details of the reports. I hate myself for this.

I have also been to the autism center here, got my diagnois, but they're taking so long to send me my paperwork.

Even the psychologist I am seeing is having a hard time obtaining the paperwork from them. Our health care system sucks.

Guess fucking what. My fiance is blaming ME once again. I tried to explain this to her but she does not listen even though my psychologist cannot even obtain the paperwork.

I have been discussing this with Timelord since last August I believe. There are tons more to this and Timelord knows exactly what's been going on. Timelord has helped me immensely.

He has talked me out of killing myself on March 28, 2009 which is 28 days from now. I still have thoughts about ending my life though but Timelord is helping me out alot with that. I have been speaking to Timelord since August.

This is why these women like Maxine Ashton and the women on aspartners anger me much more than even John Best Jr. or Jonathan Mitchell ever could. They remind me so much of my situation.

I am so sorry about my rant but this is much more personal to me as Timelord understands

By Anonymous, at 11:43 PM
The trouble is that any unqualified nutcase can call themself a counsellor and hang up their shingle and start taking in clients and start manipulating unsuspecting victims etc. And as far as I know anyone can start a support group and run it. There is no government body supervising or licencing all support groups. I gather that they are informal type things. The word "counsellor" means NOTHING. It is not a professional qualification. It does not mean the person is bound by any code of professional conduct or is even a member of any professional organization.

So this "counsellor" stole another woman's husband through her "counselling"? A performing clown who does children's parties has a greater sense of professional ethics than that piece of trash.

The whole concept of Asperger syndrome is very useful to this type of ethic-free psychoquack because of the popular idea that Asperger syndrome = no use at relationships. People who do, or who are said to have AS are ready-made scapegoats for this type of psychobully. The idea that people with AS are essentially no good at relationships has been put about by people who are supposed to be AS experts, even though there is a stack of scientific evidence that it is wrong. There is no shortage of married aspis out there. I have compiled a list of over 130-odd famous people who do or possibly had AS, and I'd estimate that most of them are or were married. In addition to this evidence, three different groups of researchers, working in different areas of scientific research have found the same thing - that people who have an autistic/highly masculinized type of psychology tend to stick with their/our own type in relationships, as do people of one other psychological type. So when there are relationship problems involving an individual of the autistic psychological type, the most sensible way of looking at the problem is in terms of compatibility between both partners, not in terms of disability of only one partner.

In Australia we have a large publicly-funded organization that offers many services, marriage/relationship counselling being one of them. I know quite a few couples who have been to counselling with this organization. Every single one of them was either dissatisfied with the service or ended up divorced. I call this organization "Divorces Australia". Counsellors are a waste of time and money. If you've got issues, see a shrink or a fully qualifed psychologist, or even better, phone your Mum.

By Lili Marlene, at 2:19 AM
Lili,

A few things on what you said, because - in some ways - you're wrong, and - in some ways - you're right. Let me explain...

"The word 'counsellor' means NOTHING."

At one level this is wrong. There is a meaning to the word: 'one who offers counsel' being the most obvious, as well as being the most problematic (since it relies heavily on a definition of what 'counsel' is). The word 'counsel' itself comes from the Middle English word conseil, which has its roots in the Latin consulere and (more specifically) consilium, and the meanings there, respectively are to consult and (basically) plan, advice, judgment, wisdom, council, advisory body (quite a large definition set there, which is why the word 'counsellor' is so hard to define).

Moving from the philological issues of definition and derivation (and noting the problems of definition as arising from the rather wide definition set), we come to the professional definitions (which are either defined by the professional bodies or by law). The US system has a specific job description for a Licensed Professional Counsellor, recognised in 49 states and some outlying regions.

"It is not a professional qualification. It does not mean the person is bound by any code of professional conduct or is even a member of any professional organization."

Given the above licensure type, it is clear that those two statements should be wrong. Sadly, the problem of definitions and that of licensure and regulation (people see what I mean in a sec - but Lili, you know already) means that - in many places - there is no real professional regulation (or even certification) for this type of activity. In the UK, for example, there is regulation by voluntary subscription via the British Psychological Society (as a Chartered Psychologist or as a Chartered Counselling Psychologist; currently the title 'psychologist' is not regulated) or via the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy. Again, the titles 'counsellor' and 'psychotherapist' are not regulated. However, for those interested in being a 'proper' counsellor, there is actually a plethora of very good quality lower and higher university degree and certificate courses one can take in order to train as one. Those which do not satisfy the BPS requirements for registration in counselling psychology can still be okay for registration with BACP. Those would be the ones to look for in seeking a counsellor: membership of such organisations is actually debatable as a quality assurance measure, but the argument there is outside the scope of this post (although, as we can see, it is still a relevant issue).

With regard to the specific issue of the counsellor in the post above: "So this 'counsellor' stole another woman's husband through her 'counselling'? A performing clown who does children's parties has a greater sense of professional ethics than that piece of trash."

The BPS and the BACP would definitely agree with that last sentiment off the record, and would have the first part of the sentiment on a permanent record! I'd say that the ACA in Australia would follow suit. The issue here is whether the woman is actually registered with a professional body or not. Even she isn't, she is - by virtue of 'professing' to be a counsellor (which is either saying that she is one or engaging in the activities of one trained to do the job)- bound by a duty of care to those for whom she occupies that role. So there are some sanctions applicable in her case, although these are unclear, and may be close to impossible to secure.

On the matter of how the issue of one partner being Asperger-autistic is handled:

"... when there are relationship problems involving an individual of the autistic psychological type, the most sensible way of looking at the problem is in terms of compatibility between both partners, not in terms of disability of only one partner".

I would say that the compatibility issue was the best perspective to use in any situation of relationship difficulties, as would any reasonable psychologist or counsellor.

"Counsellors are a waste of time and money. If you've got issues, see a shrink or a fully qualifed psychologist, or even better, phone your Mum."

Sadly, I have to say that this is very much out of order. I would not ask my own mother for advice or even a listening ear for many things - not because I don't trust her or love her (on both things, I do) - but because she doesn't have the training in systematic problem-solving or in systematic information collection that are required in offering counsel.

Regardless of what most people think, counselling has absolutely fuck all to do with giving advice but using those skills I just mentioned in order to help the client arrive at his or her own idea of what s/he should do. The onus is on the counsellor to act in a way that does not persuade the client one way or another. Many counsellors and psychologists are worth their fees (if their fees are not exorbitant), but there is - as with any profession - that handful of not just rogues but fucking unscrupulous bastards that fuck up the reputation of the profession to the detriment of their clients/patients, the kith and kin of the clients/patients and for the actual 'good guys' in the profession.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 4:20 AM
Cube...

"This woman named Rosek13 is greatful that she will be able to smoke in her house in front of her son. This is what she listed as one of the things she's greatful for when her aspie husband leaves."

That says a shitload about the woman...

"What about the child's sensitivities? Second hand smoke is more dangerous than first hand smoke. But this unsavory human being does not give one diddly squat."

Exactly. She'd be the one claiming that her Aspie hubby is selfish but that desire in itself is evidence that she is bloody selfish herself. In Finland, people who do
smoke don't even smoke in their own houses!!!! They go outside...

What's that woman's problem? Apart from being bloody selfish...

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 4:25 AM
Ive heard of these partners groups before that sit around all being victims, and drawing conclusions about each others marriages, minus the spouses. Very unhealthy.

Especialy when the private sharing involves members of the opposite sex.

If they start to pair off, or consult with one another privately, to the exclusion of their own spouses, re each others marriage issues, that could just put fuel on the fire of the begining of a full scale extramarrital affair. And a whole lot of pain for spouses and kids involved. Very selfish, it all is.

This woman seems to be desperate for a man to stoop to stealing a married man she is meant to be helping.
Some help! More like "help her self" to someone elses husband.

She certainly has no respect for his wife. Guess thats because she was "suspected" of having Aspergers!

Aspergers spouses aren't supposed to be able to feel emotional pain or be entitled to human respect at all, from what these aspartner groups seem to suggest.

This is a good example of the dysfunction that goes on in these ungoverned so called "support" groups.

Id like to know who made her leader of something like that. She is for sure not suitable.

Especialy the way she treated her own husband, if he really did have aspergers. Sounds like she thinks shes god or someone.

No sense at all of any duty of care, from a position of power or one-up-man-ship.

She would start to come accros as superior to his wife, and as in this sad case, it ends up becoming an abuse of that power.

A real issue of ethics.

If there was no marriage problem before joining groups like this, there will certainly be one after that type of thing.

Someone should look into what goes on in these kind of things.

By Anonymous, at 6:32 AM
This is what your phoney Asperger's diagnoses have led to. Now, Neuroinsanity has given people an excuse to get rid of a spouse.

If you loons weren't spreeading this bogus notion about how every weirdo has Asperger's, this stuff wouldn't be happening. At least people would use a different excuse to find a younger woman.

By John Best, at 12:02 PM
Best... fuck off, will you?

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 2:16 PM
Andrews,
I couldn't ask for a more intelligent response than that from you, thanks.

By John Best, at 2:29 PM
David, you should check out the aspartner's site at http: //f orums.delphiforums.com/aspartners

I broke up the link.

By Anonymous, at 3:40 PM
"I couldn't ask for a more intelligent response than that from you, thanks."

My commitment to inclusion: making it as simple as possible for you to understand that you have no real input to offer so it's best you're not here. Put real input in here and I might not want to tell you to fuck off. But let's face it, you have been swearing your arse off at me of late. Kettle. Pot. Black.

I'd look forward to some real intelligent input to this thread from you but I can guarantee you couldn't do it for more than two comments at the most. You don't have the intellect.

Actually, maybe that's why you try to bugger these threads on these blogs! You can't contribute so you try to distract and destroy.

Pathetic, really.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 3:50 PM
Cube,

I saw three posts and I wanted to vomit through my arse. As if non-autistics are absolutely alright in how they behave towards each other, let alone autistics a lot of the time! Do those selfish whinging gits on that forum realise that they also put their Asperger-autistic spouses through the mill themselves? OR is that okay to do, while God help the Aspie partner who messes up bloody once!

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 4:26 PM
Foresam said;
"This is what your phoney Asperger's diagnoses have led to. Now, Neuroinsanity has given people an excuse to get rid of a spouse.
If you loons weren't spreeading this bogus notion about how every weirdo has Asperger's, this stuff wouldn't be happening. At least people would use a different excuse to find a younger woman."

I dont know about the inbetween part of this comment, but as for;

"Now, Neuroinsanity has given people an excuse to get rid of a spouse. At least people would use a different excuse to find a younger woman."

Whatever other view is being represented here, I do believe this comment has some validity.

If it's not races or genders being set against each other, it's sad when it comes down to neuro differences being a dividing factor.

I do see how this could be used as a poor excuse to discard a wife for a younger model, for a narcisistic fillanderer looking for a moral cover to hide behind. This sort of thing should be frowned upon, not accepted as an excuse to end a marriage.

I dont see these partners groups are very helpful to marriages in any way, and thats not a good thing. Especialy if families are being torn apart. There are too many kids coming from broken homes, and ending up in trouble, or scarred as it is.

These aspartners groups are more harmful than they are good.

Sounds like they're becoming the new meat market or match making arenea.
From what I understood, most of these groups are all women.

The shareing of hard luck stories and especialy with emotional marriage stuff can create a real heady high for those vulnerable to emotion charged experiences.
N.T. or otherwise!
We are all huamn. Aren't we?

How far should this "shareing and careing" go? When there are two different genders involved, it's bound to go on sooner or later.

Both parties in a marriage need to take some responsibility in whats going on. With each other. Not one party going outside the marriage to someone else who has their own marraige in a mess.

It's the blind leading the blind into a ditch.

Thats why these things should be strictly governed by people who know what they're doing.
Especialy with "unisex shareing and careing"?

What happened to commitment in marriage? Isn't that meant to be part of it?

Soon different hair colour will become an excuse for divorce.

Something big is not right, here.

They're getting way out of hand and should be banned.
~Jojo

By Anonymous, at 7:45 PM
Jo-jo...

"If you loons weren't spreeading this bogus notion about how every weirdo has Asperger's, this stuff wouldn't be happening."

That comment by the blog's resident ignoramus was a straw man fallacy.

"Whatever other view is being represented here, I do believe this comment has some validity."

Sadly, the ignoramus is right, but for the wrong reason. At least from an ND perspective. Because such excuses for ending a marriage WILL be used, instead of actually bothering to work the issue out properly. And this is - as far as I can see - one of the issues behond ABFH's post.

"I dont see these partners groups are very helpful to marriages in any way, and thats not a good thing. Especialy if families are being torn apart. There are too many kids coming from broken homes, and ending up in trouble, or scarred as it is."

I agree. And it's not the 'coming from a broken home' that is the main issue: it's the shit that get brought along with that breaking of the home that does the kids' heads in.

"What happened to commitment in marriage? Isn't that meant to be part of it?"

I thought it was too. Evidently, we're wrong.

"Both parties in a marriage need to take some responsibility in whats going on. With each other."

Absolutely accurate. And like you say: "N.T. or otherwise!"

"We are all human. Aren't we?"

Given some of these 'support' groups' attitudes, you'd think not.

And that is sad.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 9:19 PM
David,
Why didn't you work your marraige out properly instead of allowing your kid to grow up in a broken home?

By John Best, at 10:05 PM
"Why didn't you work your marraige out properly instead of allowing your kid to grow up in a broken home?"

We did. And we made an agreement. When it was clear that the marriage wasn't going to work, we split. My daughter hasn't suffered from anything. If anything she's benefitted. For one thing, when it gets too hectic for her at one home, she has another to come to.

Where can Sam go to take refuge from the wrath you obviously love to pour out on him?

Don't ask anything else about my marriage. You have everything you need to know about it: it was ended by common consent. That is all you need to know. Oddly enough, after that, I got back the friend that I'd lost when I married her. Go figure, eh, John?

But then... what would you understand, when my ten year old has a better grasp of how the world works than you ever will?

Explain to everybody why you hit Sam :)

I doubt that you'd dare to... purely because you know there'd be a lot of hatred coming your way. Well-deserved hatred.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 10:14 PM
David,
What happened to commitment in marriage? Did your wife try to have you committed?

By John Best, at 11:32 PM
How about you explain it, John? Timelord has said on his forum that you're divorced.

By Anonymous, at 3:38 AM
"What happened to commitment in marriage? Did your wife try to have you committed?"

Stupid comment, John. Why your wife hasn't had you committed I don't know. Maybe because you'd have her horsewhipped for even thinking she should?

Eddie: "How about you explain it, John? Timelord has said on his forum that you're divorced."

Interesting... tell me more, Eddie!

What I find... well, hypocritical... is a guy asking me about commitment in marriage when he's really not that committed to his own child.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 4:09 AM
David, I can tell you that Best is indeed divorced. Best himself let it slip sometime ago. His ex probably left him because of his closet Aspieness and denial!

See - it's better to accept oneself that to deny it.

This is what your phoney Asperger's diagnoses have led to. Now, Neuroinsanity has given people an excuse to get rid of a spouse.

It's no excuse and it never is an excuse. Present company (meaning you, Best) excepted.

There is no such thing as CADD. It's just a substitute for intolerance.

By Anonymous, at 6:57 AM
Phil: "David, I can tell you that Best is indeed divorced. Best himself let it slip sometime ago. His ex probably left him because of his closet Aspieness and denial!"

Interesting. Actually, I think she left him because of his being a total bastard. Good enough reason. At least, my ex-wife can tell that I was never like that. We were just not complatible.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 8:24 AM
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

By John Best, at 9:01 AM
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 9:07 AM
Foresam wrote:

I am not divorced. I live with my wife and 3 kids.

David replied:

Like I say, John, she has a markedly better grasp of how the world works than you will ever have. And she knows it.

I deleted the remainder of this exchange because, as I have said before, I do not want my blog to be used as a platform for accusations of child abuse. That applies both to John's general complaints about neurodiversity and to some of the recent comments about how John is raising his son.

Enough already.

By abfh, at 10:05 AM
If John leaves me alone, I'll leave him alone.

We started out yet again with a sensible discussion and he came in and ransacked it. And he does this every time.

And that's his aim.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 11:10 AM
ABFH,
Thanks, why don't you delete the junk from Timelord who keeps claiming I'm divorced when I am not?

By John Best, at 1:32 PM
ABFH, I reread your article about child abuse again for the 3rd time. I do understand what you are saying about the foster care system.

David, our foster care system is a fucking joke just like our health care system. Here is one of the many examples of our broken foster care system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Fiesel

David, on this, I am in agreement with ABFH not only because it's her board, her rules but there is a bigger picture to this that she does understand better than any of us.

David, I don't know how Finland's foster care system is. It might be ran well there but here it is broken big time so I understand ABFH's concern and I say it is legitimate.

David, John Best is a complete asshole and a possible sociopath by the DSM criteria. On this, we both do not need to let our egos, anger, and hatred for this man cloud our sound judgement.

David we do have other avenues to attack Best with that he has definetly done.

1. He is very disrespectful to women

2. He has gambling problems

3. He believes in conspiracy theories

4. He truly believes he has the right to make a dirty bomb, biological, and chemical weapon.

5. The man has a huge sense of entitlement and a huge ego. In fact, he was truly angry that he was not not listed first on Timelord's list of Aspie Enemies. He said he felt entitled to be the first on that list.

6. As Alyric says "he's scum."

7. He has violated the patriot of our country by inciting terrorism.

8. I am sure there is a lot more from where this comes from.

9. The man has commited Affray against me and I am sure others.

10. The guy is a clown and talks the talk but does not walk the walk when challenged.

11. His buddy Jonathan Mitchell suggested I should get a shotgun and blow my brains.

David, we know this man's character and we have plenty in our treasure chest.

Even with all this, we need to still have tons of sound judgement.

By Anonymous, at 2:07 PM
Cube Demon,
As much as I respect Mr Mitchell's opinion, I would suggest that you cure yourself instead of blowing your head off.

By John Best, at 5:40 PM
You ARE divorced, Best. You said yourself about 18 months ago.

By Anonymous, at 5:43 PM
Oh and neither option is valid for Cube Demon. He is doing quite well following MY advice and being himself. There is no cure and he knows it.

By Anonymous, at 5:44 PM
Thanks, Cube Demon. And in general (I'm addressing this to everyone), I would prefer that discussions not get "ransacked," as David put it. Comments that are relevant to the topic of the post would be appreciated.

By abfh, at 6:01 PM
"Cube Demon,
As much as I respect Mr Mitchell's opinion, I would suggest that you cure yourself instead of blowing your head off."

I have an idea. This will be my second challenge to you.

I want you to

1. research double blind testing

2. write up the protocols of what you are trying to achieve with chelation based upon double blind testing proceedures.

3. Two of us with you accompanying us will take your protocols to a neutral party who is not in the autism debate at all and who hardly knows anything about autism.

4. I volunteer to be your guinea pig via your chelation procedures.

5. As your chelation procedures are being done by you I want that neutral party person to be there to make sure the double blind procedures we all agree too(including you) are followed to the exact letter. This means no cheating by either of our sides.

By this, we will find out who is right once in for all.

My first challenge still stands to you best about Paul Ofitt.

Are you up for this 2nd challenge Best?

By Anonymous, at 6:10 PM
"Thanks, Cube Demon. And in general (I'm addressing this to everyone), I would prefer that discussions not get "ransacked," as David put it. Comments that are relevant to the topic of the post would be appreciated."

ABFH, that's no problem not from me, Timelord, or David. I don't think that would be a problem from even Jonathan Mitchell.

On the other hand, John Best Jr. does not stick to the topic at all.

All he does is degrades people considerably especially women. The man does not respect women at all and by some of his comments I deduce that he sees them as objects for his personal gratification. By certain morals I was taught it's hard for me to stand for that unchallenged. I will try to stick to the topic but if he disrespects women the way he does, it's difficult for me not to say anything.

This man personally believes he has the right to create his own biological weapon for his so-called revolution. This can't go unchallenged either.

The truth is Best and the women from aspartners are from the same side of the same coin.

With Best, Truthfully I don't think this man can be ignored like it has been suggested by a lot of people.

Personally, I think anything he says needs to be collected and collated as evidence.

I am ranting so I will end it right here.

By Anonymous, at 6:36 PM
ABFH, maybe it's time to moderate posts to keep John on topic?

By Anonymous, at 7:41 PM
Timelord,
I am not now nor have I ever been divorced from anyone. I have never said I was divorced. Howver you got that idea into your head was a mistake.

Cube,
I'm not going to have you stay at my house so I can get up in the middle of the night to give you doses of ALA. If you want to become normal, read Andy Cutler's protocol and do it yourself. If you want to do a DBCS, read his protocol and do it yourself. I don't give a damn about the studies. I'm only interested in seeing the kids get treatment.

By John Best, at 7:54 PM
John, stay on topic please.

We're not talking about chelation now.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 8:15 PM
John, if you don't give a damn about studies, you don't give a damn about the truth.

By Matt Hogan, at 8:16 PM
I am agreement with David and ABFH. No more getting off topic.

By Anonymous, at 8:22 PM
I do have a question. Is there anything we can do to help this particular Cassandra Cult Victim out?

By Anonymous, at 8:28 PM
I say if this victim has any evidence at all to send it to ABFH so it can be compiled, collated, and collected. She needs to keep that for herself. She may be able to bring a lawsuit against the Cassandra Cult. I don't know. I am no lawyer.

By Anonymous, at 8:32 PM
It's obvious one spouse doesn't want the other anymore. The only thing you can do is move on.

By John Best, at 8:59 PM
Cube: "Is there anything we can do to help this particular Cassandra Cult Victim out? I say if this victim has any evidence at all to send it to ABFH so it can be compiled, collated, and collected. She needs to keep that for herself. She may be able to bring a lawsuit against the Cassandra Cult. I don't know. I am no lawyer."

I'm sad to say that I can't see what we could do except to suggest that she find other people (men and women, rather than just groups of either sex) and find out the common themes in their experiences of having spouses who went to the sort of groups that have been mentioned in this thread; and then send a basic executive summary of this collective experience, along with a cover letter and a good set of contact data, to as many local newspapers and radio stations as they can.

As Lindsay said: "(i)f ... she's up for it, she might consider telling her story to a local newspaper. Maybe the public outcry could put Cassandra Lady out of business."

And many like her.

Who knew, eh? Qualitative research techniques have a really good use in real life.

And - as the strains of the voice of the late (and very great) Gene Clark drift across my bedroom - I bid goodnight to my friends here, and especially to ABFH... who puts up with such a lot on here. From all of us, really.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 9:05 PM
"It's obvious one spouse doesn't want the other anymore. The only thing you can do is move on."

On that issue, John... yes, I think we can agree.

And from me, thank you for being on topic. No, I'm not taking the piss. Just giving you genuine thanks. Good night, John.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 9:08 PM
John

"It's obvious one spouse doesn't want the other anymore. The only thing you can do is move on."

I hate to say this but I actually agree with you on this statement.

By Anonymous, at 10:08 PM
Foresam said; I am not now nor have I ever been divorced from anyone. I have never said I was divorced. Howver you got that idea into your head was a mistake.

John with your history of lying do you really think you'll have us believe this?

I give you credit for your other statement however. Seems you would know.

To be fair, Timelord, can you detail why you believe John is divorced?

By Anonymous, at 11:16 PM
Eddie, I haven't searched my records yet, but I know I saw Best state he was divorced. It was on a blog that is no longer around (the one that was a discussion blog for a petition against Best's blog - Best will know the one I mean) and the post was in the last three months or thereabouts of 2007.

And to keep this on topic, I've made it clear before now that I believe Best to be on the Spectrum himself. That would make his ex a prime CADD candidate wouldn't it? Unlikely though - because on this occasion I'm on her side! I doubt any of us who are against Best would be in any way supporting Maxine!

By Anonymous, at 7:36 AM
I have been contacted by a person connected to this case in some way (no, I'm not going to say if it's ABFH, the woman whose husband was encouraged to leave her, the husband or the woman whose group it is that has been discussed in this post).

For this reason, I shall not be posting anything here until I have discussed the issues involved with that person. These issues are not legal issues concerning the blog or my comments; nor are they issues concerning other posters (including John Best Jr). The issues are personal to the individual who has contacted me, and I do not wish to discuss them here. So, John, I'd greatly appreciate it if you would refrain from pressing me on anything to do with this case (and I'm saying this with no malice intended at you).

At this point I should bow out of this discussion as a matter of professional ethicality.

Those who continue to comment here, please keep our comments relevant to the issue posted about, rather than to persons who - because of this contact - cannot now participate in a public discussion of this matter. For clarification on what the actually issue up for discussion is, I call on AFBH herself to make that clear.

Thank you all (including John, and especially ABFH) in advance for respecting these requests.

Please enjoy a meaningful discussion.

By David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E., at 11:19 AM
Thank you, David; and in answer to Cube Demon's question generally, without getting into the details, there are several people who are considering what can be done about this situation.

By abfh, at 11:49 AM
I have nothing to say except ... wow, that really sucks.

If she's diagnosing without a license, the police should be involved (if they aren't already)

If she has a license, she should lose it for sleeping with a client.

By Anonymous, at 12:43 PM
David, good luck.

David and ABFH, both of you are very ethical people.

By Anonymous, at 9:33 PM
cube demon: You should stop blaming me for the statement about shooting yourself. If you go back and read the whole posts and entire thread in context, it was you who offered to die for me to make me happy. I was only either taking you up on your offer or calling your bluff.

By jonathan, at 11:07 AM
Jonathan

"cube demon: You should stop blaming me for the statement about shooting yourself. If you go back and read the whole posts and entire thread in context, it was you who offered to die for me to make me happy. I was only either taking you up on your offer or calling your bluff."

I will say the same thing back to you and I will paraphrase your words "If you go back and read the whole posts"
and say you need to do what you just said.

You need to read the posts again yourself.

I will tell you here what I meant.

I was willing to risk my life for the challenge I offered Best by being the guinea pig. Here is my logical reasoning.

a. If Best is right in his message and we ASD's have been mercury poisoned and his chelation treatments actually do work then he wins.

b. If Best wins this challenge, this would mean autism being caused by genetics was wrong and we all need to do chelation including you and I.

c. Since a and b would hold up if Best won this challenge then after chelation we need to sue the pharamceutical industry like Best suggests and rake in some money from it.

d. This means we could pursue our own happiness from the massive lawsuit and we will be able to obtain jobs much easier.

e. From this Scenario, we as individuals would all win. Neurodiversity would still be a valid medical concept because people would still have different and natural mind configurations.

f. This would mean though that if Best won the challenge that Neurodiversity would not apply to autism since because Best proved by passing the challenge ASD's was mercury poisoning and it's not a natural mind configuration.

g. Let's say Best loses the challenge. This means, unless another cause is discovered, then most likely ASD's are genetic in origin and the anti-thiermsol in vaccines will be proven wrong and will eventually wither away.

h. This means all that will be left will be the group who supports finding a cure for Autism by genetics and our movement which really should not be called Neurodiversity anyway since ND is established medical fact. Personally I think our movement needs a new name that is based upon the concept of ND.

i. No genetic cure will be forthcoming. What will happen is when an ASD genetic marker is discovered there will be tests to determine autism. This means most children before they are born will be aborted. This is true for down syndrome babies.

j. The cure by genetics is really a eugenics movement and proof of this will come out more and more and eventually this will be squashed and ASD's will be accepted as decent human beings once and for all and we will all be able to pursue our own happiness. You will not get your cure jonathan. Do we all not have the right to pursue happiness, Jonathan? Do you not have the right to liberty? Do you not have the right to life? I say you do Jonathan as do I and as do all of us.

k. This would prove to the NT world people on the spectrum do have compassion and sympathy for others, we have feelings to that need to be heard, and our mind configuration is valid.

l. This is what I meant when I was willing to risk my life in this challenge which could probably lead to death.

By Anonymous, at 12:53 PM
Jonathan said:

"cube demon: You should stop blaming me for the statement about shooting yourself. If you go back and read the whole posts and entire thread in context, it was you who offered to die for me to make me happy. I was only either taking you up on your offer or calling your bluff."

Wow! Just wow. Now that Cube Demon has explained, do you SEE how you get everything so twisted up in your mind? There was No "offering to die for you to make you happy". That's just bizarre.

By Anonymous, at 5:20 PM
I was only either taking you up on your offer or calling your bluff.

Mitchell, no matter which way you put it - both of those statements showed your usual form. Pressing home your hatred for Autism and trying to impress it on Cube Demon. Unacceptable and unrealistic, given that - as Cube Demon rightly pointed out - you are clearly against liberty for those on the Spectrum. Including your own. Cube Demon tripped you up and you didn't even see it because of your blinkered view point.

By Anonymous, at 5:08 AM
Mitchell said (on his own blog);

"I do believe in human rights and treating autistic people with dignity."

And yet;

"I do not believe these nobel causes and the nobel cause of doing scientific research to find a cure for autism and to prevent autism are goals that are mutually exclusive from one another."

Anyone for hypocrisy?

Mitchell is anti human rights whether he likes it or not. I make this point because if there was such a thing as CADD, he's got it. Except in his case it's courtesy of.....you know. Right, Clay? *winks*

By Anonymous, at 6:35 AM
Cube Demon
After you chelate yourself and become normal, you will be the winner, not me.

By John Best, at 8:11 AM
Hey Best,

Did you even read what I said? If you passed both of my challenges proving the vaccine theory correct, contrary to what you think, you would win also.

Here is how:

1. You would be able to sue the pharamceutical industry and rake in millions.

2. You can use these millions to bet on your horse races. Since you are so good at winning your bets at the horse races you could quadruple your money made from your lawsuit.

3. You could write books about the challenge won by you and all the struggles you've been through to win.

4. You could write books about your secret on how you are able to profit on horse racing by gambling.

5. With all of the money you could make from the proceeds from your books and from your lawsuit you could obtain the best possible chelation therapy for your son that you need.

6. This means after your son is chelated you will not have to use the money for chelation therapy anymore.

Now Best, Do you see how you would win if you won my challenges? Do you see my logic now?

By Anonymous, at 2:54 PM
David and ABFH,

Will both of you take a look at this link? http://samvak.tripod.com/faq28.html This man is a narcissist himself. Maxine's Ashton's description of this so called CADD is not anything new at all. These symptoms these women are experiencing are Narcissitic Supply Deficiency. I suspect most of these women are Narcissists.

In fact, one aspie I talked to on wrongplanet has an ex-wife who is a member of aspartners. He told me she was diagnoised with Narcissistic Personality Disorder(NPD). After she found out he was an aspie she tried to change him and do a pygmalion on him. She tried to make him into something he was not. I suspect the reason may be to feed her narcissistic supply.

By Anonymous, at 3:04 PM
Cube Demon makes an excellent point! Maybe it is compulsory for a DX of the mythical CADD to have a genuine case of NPD.

After you chelate yourself and become normal, you will be the winner, not me.

No he won't, Best. It would kill him psychologically. Anyway - there is no such thing as normal.

Cube Demon, one point. If chelation worked and Best is an Aspie as I believe him to be probably - he'd lose his mathematical ability that serves him so well at the race track and he'd lose the lot!!

By Anonymous, at 4:47 PM
you are clearly against liberty for those on the Spectrum

I am for liberty of everyone on the spectrum with a few exceptions, timelord, yourself included. You should have no liberty whatsoever, you should be institutionalized in a locked psych ward with no due process whatsoever for the good of society and everyone you harass including me.

By jonathan, at 9:11 PM
Timelord said:

"Mitchell is anti human rights whether he likes it or not. I make this point because if there was such a thing as CADD, he's got it. Except in his case it's courtesy of.....you know. Right, Clay? *winks*"

And then Jonathan said:

"I am for liberty of everyone on the spectrum with a few exceptions, timelord, yourself included. You should have no liberty whatsoever, you should be institutionalized in a locked psych ward with no due process whatsoever for the good of society and everyone you harass including me."

I think we should add that one to the list. Geeze, first you want to lock up Socrates, now Timelord. Did they touch a sore spot or something?

Hey, I'm worried about you. If you don't live with your mom, as you say, and you lost your job 2 years ago, how are you getting by? I know it's not easy to get on SSI, especially if you have a work history. I think you said somewhere that you'd worked for 28 years. Can't imagine that they'd let you get SSI, after having proven you could work.

So, if the government isn't supporting you, and your mother isn't, how do you pay your rent and utilities, buy groceries and all?

And how come you never answered my questions over on Natural Variations? You left a dangling conversation over there.

By Clay, at 1:25 AM
"I think we should add that one to the list. Geeze, first you want to lock up Socrates, now Timelord. Did they touch a sore spot or something?

Hey, I'm worried about you. If you don't live with your mom, as you say, and you lost your job 2 years ago, how are you getting by? I know it's not easy to get on SSI, especially if you have a work history. I think you said somewhere that you'd worked for 28 years. Can't imagine that they'd let you get SSI, after having proven you could work.

So, if the government isn't supporting you, and your mother isn't, how do you pay your rent and utilities, buy groceries and all?

And how come you never answered my questions over on Natural Variations? You left a dangling conversation over there."

Clay, these are good questions.

Jonathan, let me reiteriate again. NTs consider all of us ASD's mentally ill. If Socrates should be locked up and Timelord should be locked up then you and I should be locked up as well. This means all of us ASD's should be locked up by NT's standards. So, Jonathan before you say anyone is mentally ill remember how the NT world views us and that is we are mentally ill.

By Anonymous, at 1:49 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.

By Anonymous, at 4:05 AM
Try again!

I am for liberty of everyone on the spectrum with a few exceptions, timelord, yourself included. You should have no liberty whatsoever, you should be institutionalized in a locked psych ward with no due process whatsoever for the good of society and everyone you harass including me.

Mitchell, you are self confessed "Gadfly" remember? Harassment equals nuisance. So if you want me to stop harassing you, shut down your blog and shut your mouth, or start fighting for your rights instead of just giving up and letting the NT's win. Until then - as long as you persist in being "Autism's Gadfly" I will continue to be your personal gadfly. If you can't take it - don't dish it out. Very simple. EVERYONE deserves liberty - unless they break the criminal code. Harassment is not a breach of the criminal code, which is why you are safe as am I. This is the Internet. Live with it.

For the good of society you should be quiet. You are doing the understanding of the Autistic Spectrum no good at all. Which is your core intention. Pathetic - and completely lacking in human rights. Even your latest post about the IACC report and the reflection by Kev absolutely reeked of xenophobia!

Well said, Cude Demon! And Clay made a good point as well.

By Anonymous, at 4:06 AM
Timelord said:

"Until then - as long as you persist in being "Autism's Gadfly" I will continue to be your personal gadfly. If you can't take it - don't dish it out."

Very good point, Phil. He thinks all the "persistent nuisance-making" should go one way. I've left a few comments on his blog that I knew he'd never publish, just to piss him off. I guess he always thinks it's you!

But, um, if Jon did shut down down his blog, stopped being a shill for Generation Rescue or whatever, he might lose his only source of income! You wouldn't want the sorry sod to wind up on the street would you? I mean, that happens to a lot of us, though no one ever knows about it. I'd hate to think of someone with such sterling character < cough > as Jon-boy broke and defenseless on the street.

And while we're on the subject, anyone hear from Billy Cresp lately? I think maybe he quit his job.

By Clay, at 9:38 AM
I am the woman accused. I have just emailed abfh to contribute a little to this distressing blog thread. I would welcome any communication from anyone on this blog site, and would love to actually have an opportunity to speak for myself, rather than being spoken about. I hope that abfh will provide me with this opportunity.
I'll reserve anything more and wait for abfh's response to me personally.

By Anonymous, at 5:18 AM
Accused, CFG? You're a victim from what I can tell. But anyway......

I have a joke for you all;

Jonathan Mitchell dies and goes to to Heaven. As he stood in front of the Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind
him.

He asks, 'What are all those clocks?'

St. Peter answered, 'Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone on earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you lie the hands on your clock move.'

'Oh', said Mitchell. 'Whose clock is that?'

'That's Phil Gluyas’s,' replied St. Peter. 'The hands have never moved, indicating that Phil never told a lie.'

'Incredible', said Mitchell - his eyes bulging. 'And whose clock is that one?'

St. Peter responded, 'That's Clay Adam’s clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Clay told only two lies in his entire life.'

'Where's John Best’s clock?' Mitchell asked the man.

'Best’s clock is in Jesus' office. He's using it as a ceiling fan.'

(For the record - Mitchell's clock was the back up)

By Anonymous, at 5:40 AM
Phil never told a lie

*sigh*

By Anonymous, at 8:56 AM
CFG

Please read this http://samvak.tripod.com/faq28.html

I don't know what your husband is or was like but the description of CADD is eerily similar to the sympotoms of the narcisst's supply deficiency. He may be narcissistic also. I do not know. I am not a psychologist or professional so take what I say very carefully. He and this woman would truly have to be diagnoised by a professional. This is my theory on what is happening.

I am sure ABFH and David will help you the best that they can.

CFH, my advice to you is be very careful with your husband. Everything you knew about your husband may be completely wrong.

He may, with this so called CADD's woman advice may try to impose a so called cure on you. Be very careful. In addition, he may try to do pygmalion on you and try to change you into something your're not. Again, be very careful for your sake and your children's sake. I could be wrong though and if I am then I am.

By Anonymous, at 9:41 AM
*sigh*

Context, Anon! It was a joke! No human being has ever not lied in their entire life! Even me. I have never lied since I was DXed with Aspergers (or even before that) and in the context of being an Autism Activist I have definitely never lied.

You're lying if you think I have. The fact that you went in as an anon bears that out. Is your clock a ceiling fan as well?

By Anonymous, at 7:03 PM
Timelord, John lied again on the Autism Speaks Ning. Said he only hated the New York Yankees! Jesus must be cool! Cool joke, mate! You should put that on your JB forum.

By Anonymous, at 8:28 PM
Timelord, I love your joke. Once I got it, I thought it was very funny.

By Anonymous, at 1:45 AM
I have never lied since I was DXed with Aspergers (or even before that) and in the context of being an Autism Activist I have definitely never lied.

Hilarious.

By Anonymous, at 6:43 AM
Timenut,
I believe you. You're so stupid you have no clue whether what you're saying is true or not. You just keep babbling like a deranged parrot, awwwk, awwwk, curebies are bad, curebies are bad, awwwk, awwwk.

By John Best, at 9:31 AM
You're so stupid you have no clue whether what you're saying is true or not. You just keep babbling like a deranged parrot, awwwk! awwwk! poisoning our babies, poisoning our babies, awwwk! awwwk!

By Anonymous, at 10:22 AM
Clay,
Try to come up with something original, will you. I don't like being flattered by mental cases.

By John Best, at 10:36 AM
You're just not worth the effort.

By Clay, at 11:25 AM
I don't know why you put up with foresam's comments, abfh.

By Anonymous, at 2:36 PM
@Anonymous: generally speaking, trolls become a problem only when people feed them.

By abfh, at 3:53 PM
I wish to take up the original thread of this blog, and make an answer to the claims of the alleged Cassandra Cult Victim. I am presently in discussion with abfh about other more general matters.
The woman who wrote the letter self-diagnosed with AS in about 2003/2004 then withdrew that self-diagnosis somewhere between 2006 & 2008.
Her husband and she initiated contact with me in 2004 when they were seeking help from the local Autistic support community.
I sent newsletters to the husband for a few months until they began to bounce. I did not follow him up. Mid-2005 I believe I sent an announcement about a couples seminar to their family email address. That's all the contact I had with them until the husband re-initiated contact with me in April 2006 informing me that his wife had left him and he wanted to speak with members of our group again for some understanding.
I did not have a secret affair with this man. I didn't even know what he looked like until April 2006. I did not break up his marriage. I did get involved on a personal level and too quickly because I thought he was legitimately "separated", perceiving him to be rejected by her because she had left him. I understood in hindsight that she would have felt very angry with me because I interfered with her "taking a stand" against his alleged "abusive" behaviour and manner of speaking towards her. She had left in order to encourage him to have a "change of heart". She uses a lot of religious hype.
In hindsight she believes an "influence" came into their relationship in 2005, and claims this was me. It wasn't. I am innocent of this accusation.
This family's problems date back a long way. The woman is not being truthful about this. Perhaps a contribution from her husband would be desirable.
Whilst there are "threads" of truth in what this woman has reported, she has used those threads to weave a fabrication of what has actually happened to her, and I am her scapegoat. Yes, she has suffered and so has their child, so has her husband. But to have this blame laid at my feet is like ... OUCH! This is extremely unjust. She needs to blame the system that wasn't able to provide the support they needed all along, and some of it needs to come back to her own feet - we are all players in our own situations, and until we can recognise this and address our own parts, we can't make a positive contribution.
I do not claim to be a counsellor and never use the term "counsel" in relation to anything I do.
In relation to Cassandra, I have only known for about three weeks that there was any controversy about this and CAD. Ever since I became aware of AS my passion has been to contribute to spreading awareness and using my own personal experience to help others. I have never supported any campaign against the Autistic community and didn't know this existed. This is not how I am. I do support partners, and Cassandra is useful for the validation process, but my personal belief all along has been that Cassandra is no longer Cassandra once her voice is heard, ie, that the mysterious difficulties within her relationship have been identified. It is unhelpful for NT partners to remain stuck in that place or with that label. I have spoken with close to 1000 partners from NT/AS mixed relationships. There are common threads. I talk about "what is" but I spend a lot of time describing AS and where it's coming from, in order to bring understanding to the NT mind. The lights go on for them and the response is often "Shit! I never thought of it that way! He/she's a victim of ignorance too!" The pattern that is very clear to me is that once an NT partner has had a chance to vent and be validated they are then able to move forward emotionally and take on board a lot of learning about AS. Then they are able to begin the process of change - changing how they approach the situation, changing their expectations of their partners, their relationship and themselves. I write about these things. I try to educate NT partners. I constantly refer people on to receive professional help. I have never been "knowingly" part of any campaign against the Autistic community, although abfh makes a point that I have been by "association". Guys, how do we help the NT community without talking about what typically happens in these relationships? It is difficult to talk about "what is" without seeming to be critical in some way. NT's don't know what's going on when they are trying to mutualise a relationship with an AS person. They react in all the wrong ways because they have no idea. The end result I always aim for is bringing understanding so that people can then approach their situations with knowledge. I don't counsel anyone to leave their marriage. The trouble is that by the time anyone phones or emails me for support their relationship is already in very big trouble and both partners are in a terrible state of distress. General awareness of AS in adults and relationships is still almost non-existent in the region where I conduct my support work. I run face-to-face meetings, which I don't think happens in too many places in the world. I believe this gives us "real" examples, and not just stories that can be relayed in cyberspace. I am very aware that I am influencing the lives of real people, and I feel this weight very heavily. This woman's story is just one story. I made a mistake of getting personally involved before I knew enough. My relationship with her husband has failed at least four times and on these occasions they attempted to re-establish their relationship but it failed within several days. I'm afraid it's become a bit of a saga.
This woman does have a very sad story, but how she's conveyed it to you is full of lies and she's revved you up on the grounds of human rights, etc, but it didn't happen like she says it did.
I have plenty of hard evidence to show that there are a lot more players in this woman's story than little ol' me. She can't get to the other players though, so she targets me.
She doesn't realise that I was so upset by how she and her husband and child were treated in a legal arena recently, I actually wrote to a government minister to advocate (without identifying the family) on behalf of families with disabilities. Talking about discrimination on the grounds of human rights? This was atrocious and I was ashamed of my country.
Well guys, I've placed myself on a hill so you can stone me if you like. I'm not so different to you, I love cats and come from a family of engineers. I'm not ashamed to identify my own AS traits. I'm just stuck between the NT and AS worlds and don't know what the heck to do about the predicament I've found myself in. I'm disappointed that this whole "them and us" mentality has happened in the US. I don't believe this exists where I live. A tsunami of misunderstanding caused by generations of ignorance, internationally. And we're all left to deal with it as best we can.
CFG

By Anonymous, at 6:17 PM
Good of you to reply, CFG.

I think the particulars of the relationship(s) in question may be something to settle privately.

What is objectionable to the Aspie community at large is really about language : you claim that Aspie/NT relationships tend to be troubled in certain ways.

And you don't really know that. You know that *some* particular ones are. But how many happy 'mixed' couples contact your group? By the nature of the group, you only hear from troubled ones, so you get a distorted view. This is the phenomenom of Selection Bias.

For example, I could claim that red-heads make terrible partners and form a group. Only the unhappy partners of redheads are going to join my group. Once I have a few dozen, I say, "In my experience, what typically happens in melanin-impaired relationships is ..."

Before you generalize, you need carefully controlled statistical research. Hanging up a sign and seeing who shows up isn't enough - in fact, it's guaranteed to validate the pathology you're looking for.

Unfounded generalizations hurt people.

If you stop commenting about Asperger's in general, and simply speak in terms of particular and personal experience,
there is little for us to object to.

By Unknown, at 11:21 AM
Ceiling Crash, thank you for your gracious response.
I take on board what you are saying, and I see your point. It is wrong to make "blanket" assertions about any group of people.
I absolutely believe there are many marriages involving Asperger's Syndrome that are totally satisfying and successful.
People in these marriages are not seeking help, so therefore we are only seeing a sample made up of marriages/relationships that are in trouble, which I guess gives a biased sample. I think this is a danger in any advocacy work though.
Support works like mine have only sprung up to meet a need. All of the people who find us and other places for NT support, have already explored many possibilities for the confusing things that are happening in their situations, and they have finally after a long search "happened" on information about Asperger's Syndrome, and it seems to finally describe what they've been trying to describe and verbalise for years.
Most of the NT partners I help have been married for at least 10 years, many for 20-30, and some even up to 50 years & beyond. Yes, elderly men and women too. All of them have had long-term issues that no-one could help them with. A good proportion of these people are still in their marriages and we're doing what we can to give them the information and support they need in order to stay there.
I would like to suggest that the hostility that has built up between the AS and NT communities has been predominantly sparked and fuelled by online forums, chat rooms & blog sites where people freely vent and often lose their inhibitions, saying things they wouldn't get away with in a face to face situation.
I got out of all online forums about 7 or 8 years ago because I recognised how toxic they easily became and how difficult it is to keep a balanced "bigger picture" of the issues and needs.
I believe it's these places where the lack of reality is coming in. Many people can only dump this stuff online, because they don't have an opportunity in a face to face group setting.
Then the leaders of groups like faaas and even your own group get loaded up emotionally with desperate stories of injustice. All of us, NT's & AS people alike, are then smitten with a deep yearning to be a voice for who we perceive to be the underdogs, and to do all we can to make a difference for hurting people.
No-one, no NT's or AS people can really cope with this emotional load and maintain a healthy perspective.
We all need to take a step back and work on spreading awareness and information in a constructive fashion to promote understanding and co-operation.
Your group, and other groups including NT groups, are likely targets for people using us to serve their own agendas of saving face and avoiding responsibility for themselves.
I promise you I will do my best with what I have to maintain as much balance as is possible in dealing with the situations I am presented with.
Our group is already behind several initiatives to provide face to face support & therapy groups for AS adults and NT/AS couples. It was always our desire, but we didn't have the knowledge or expertise to offer this before now.
CFG

By Anonymous, at 6:23 AM
CFG said
"I did not have a secret affair with this man".

Why does this woman's defencive remark remind me of a similar remark made by former president Bill Clinton.

CFG you dodge issues and respond like a politician. What are you running for?

I believe the actual quote in question my be;

"I had no idea he was involved with her in any way until he announced to me on the phone from her house that he had decided to end our marriage for a woman he claimed at the time to have just met, and move in with her. But it turns out they had a long term secret involvement".

This story make me feel nauseated.
My condolences to the woman who wrote the letter and your child.
What an interesting discussion this is.
Remarkably however,
I find the minimisation here is extraordinary.
So just let me get this straight,
CFG if you are the woman who broke up this woman's marriage there is an uncomfortable calm and lack of remorse coming forth from you about your part in this.
Something is definitely lacking in your acceptance of responsibility regarding the support role you had adopted in this couples marriage.
Was it to support the aspergers marriage as you claim is your groups purpose, or to support a partner to leave the marriage as this woman claims?
The latter really does seem to be the more believable, with what you have admitted to.
At some benefit to yourself one would envision in this sad case.

That's what I think is the underlying issue that all can see, that is not being taken with all that much regard by you I'm sorry to say , CFG.
Your impressive list your own good works, virtues and deeds here tend to be remarkably over shadowed by the fruit of your works, in a way that ought not be made lite of.
There is something it seems you are just not getting here that's very disturbing.

Its not what you say, but what you do.
Its fairly apparent there's some rather awful doing that's been happening in this sad case, and you appear to have played a large part in that doing, that is now being played down by you?
Am I wrong?

If you would be so good as to respond. I'm interested to know what goes on in these meetings.
How soon after mid April you refer to, when this woman's husband contacted you for support from your aspartner group,did you become too quickly involved with this chap?
How long did you support the husband in his marriage before you regrettably crossed this line?
Was the wife aware you were supporting her husband in the said way, or was it a secret to her as she claims?
Is there no merit to the woman's claim?

Wouldn't it have been more appropriate in this case to have a another chap offer the husband such support. Though from what you say the husband was requesting group meetings and support, not private meetings or private individual support. Is that right? You obviously don't confine your support to your meetings where this sort of thing can be witnessed by other members with any degree of accountability set in place. Yet you do say he was enquiring about group meetings when he contacted you, not private meetings? How long was he attending these support meetings before you became personally involved with this woman's husband.Did the other members know you were becoming personally involved, or whom do you answer to?
There are so many questions being casually avoided here that it leaves one lost for words.
If you have come here to respond to this woman's claim, then you wont mind responding to this request for straight answers.
Did your furnish this chap with Cassandra propaganda information or not?
Did this chap, you are admitting you were giving support to in your support work leave his marriage to move in with you as this woman claims?
Or not?
If this woman's story is fictitious or so far removed from the truth, why would you came forward to defend such claims?
Did you support this chap in leaving his marriage?
or were you opposed to him leaving this woman and their child?
For how long did you encourage this chap to work on the issues his wife was making these allegations of abuse about?
What help did you offer the woman if you indicate they originally came to your support work as a couple seeking help for their marriage?
What was this chaps wife having to say about it when you were supporting her husband?
As you tell us now your involvement with and support of her husband was not a secret to her at all.
Did you move the woman's husband into your own home, directly from their marital home?
That would certainly facilitate a break up, in my opinion.
That's a very large degree if interference into any marriage, apart from any romantic inclusion that had developed on your part complicating things, wouldn't one think?
Its a romantic involvement you had? Is that what you agree was the case?
And if you had invested to any degree emotionally in the woman's husband at the same time, I would say you are pulling your own leg here or playing around with words to get out of a difficult situation you have been caught in.
That's what I'd like to hear about and know the answers to, from reading what this woman is claiming took place.
Your involvement hardly appears to be a healthy one and I understand that's what the whole point of the topic.
Correct me if I'm wrong here.
One sided support in any marriage is not support, its division.
And as I understand we are all aware marital division is what the aspartners groups have become known for.
If you are emotionally invested in this chap you cant be impartial regarding the health of his marriage. It doesn't take much to work that out.
Well at least that's my view. Even though I hardly expect others would disagree with me on that.
It's fairly clear the chaps wife is not recommending your aspergers marriage support work,
I don't think I would be either. Though you now appear to be attempting to impress the readers of this blog with the virtues of your support work.
It appears you were involved to some degree by your own admission in coming forward.
I cant help but think its guilt that motivates that.
Or maybe not.

I don't think my wife would be too happy about anything like that. I don't think I'd be too pleased with some chap taking my wife under his wing of support and comfort and into his home either.
If this couple came to you for help as you say that's hardly the sort of help I think they were needing.
At least the wife doesn't seem at all that pleased with your service.
I think that's what is being said here. You would agree?
It seems an awful lot like you are not taking any responsibility as the involved party for the pain this woman seems to have experienced and is expressing or your significant role in this sad state of affairs.

It appears there has surely been a large amount of suffering caused to this woman's life, and you don't appear to be all that humbly apologetic about any of it. Its not as you failed to return a book you borrowed from her, or some such trivial thing. This course of events would have a dramatic life altering impact to any family.

You are appearing to be dismissing this woman as just another story of many in some collection. When your personal involvement in this apparent tragedy is clearly a significant one.
You do seem to be reducing this woman's plight to just a sad story in your opinion. Almost is if you played no part in the origin of her anguish. Just one of many stories?
Have you become involved with other aspartner husbands?
Are there more stories like this one?

Its somewhat clear even to a casual observer you would have created a great deal of that sadness for this woman.

Have you departed from their marriage permanently this time?
I do hope you have the good sense to do that and remain uninvolved with this husband and his wife. To learn from this huge error in character and ethical judgement, and refrain from such support of aspartner husbands in the future.
I don't envy the woman the mammoth task of reestablishing trust if she would be willing to take this chap back after all this. But certainly it would take more than a few days of work to restore this marriage after this destructive form of aspartners intervention that's occurred. It would appear the saga, you mention here CFG is more the reoccurring interference of the aspartner involvement. Being yourself.
How is it that you have been involved 4 times in this couples marriage now, and say it failed.

Are you referring to your intrusion when you say it failed or the coupes marriage failed 4 times. It looks to me that your intrusion resulted in a successful intrusion 4 times.
If you ask me, I'd say your involvement couldn't have helped in any way.

You seem a mite too defencive about the effect this has had on this husband and wife's marriage. You have personally and directly influenced this chap with this Cassandra material and it has resulted in harm to the marriage.
How are you amending the harm you admit has resulted here?
I don't see anything that remotely resembles any genuine empathy for this woman, and it appears the child of the marriage. If anything lot of excuses are being made. Are you white washing this whole affair?

This is a precise example if not extreme, of the foreseeable outcome that has been feared the aspartner groups would eventually become responsible for. Making the aspergers partner a non person for whom the NT partner is encouraged to have no respect and fix all blame on. And ever worse, in the case described here the offence is actually committed by the groups own leader.

This is gross disrespect on the part of this aspartners group support works leader what ever she is calling herself towards the aspergers partner of this chap in the marriage she was supporting.

To the woman ABFH has written about, I'd be advising you to seek legal advice regarding the aspartners group responsible. And wish you all the best.

And from CFG I'd like to hear some clearer responses and responsible admissions.
You sound more like you are presenting a political speech on behalf of aspertners, than identifying this woman's pain.

Markus Worthy

By Anonymous, at 2:18 PM
Markus, I could just simply be telling the truth.
Your analysis of me may have led you to conclude that I am covering something or feeling guilty, but it could also mean that I am being completely truthful and straightforward and have nothing secret to conceal. You are very welcome to come and visit my home and talk with me face to face and find out first hand what has been taking place. There is much I could show you. Bring your family and we'll give you accommodation and take you sightseeing. You won't find me to be a monster at all. You can come and witness first hand what our meetings are like. I like AS people, and I have good rapport with quite a few.
I have been very embarrassed in hindsight at my lack of discretion and involvement in this situation, and I'm angry at myself for being so stupid and naive.
But I'm damned if I do defend myself, and I'm damned if I don't. It seems that either move is seen to prove guilt.
If I sound like a politician it's because I'm trying to be rational and brave.
I'm a mother of five, I work in aged care, I'm studying part-time and I run a small support group on the side in a voluntary capacity. We're not an organised militant activity. I rarely even talk to people in the support group between meetings. I receive several calls and emails from new contacts every week, and I respond as best I can. We don't have a secret online chat room. I write newsletters and organise monthly meetings. We let partners vent a bit at our meetings because they have nowhere else to do this, but we round up every meeting with education, mostly provided by professionals who attend our meetings, facilitate discussion and keep us positive and accountable. Perhaps we do things differently to the "other partner groups" you speak of. I can't speak of other groups because I don't know what they do. Obviously I've been in the dark ages.
I can't have remorse over something I didn't cause or create.
I came in on the end of a marital situation that had a history, a long history.
Out of respect for this woman, and compassion for the grief and trauma she and her child have already experienced, I won't tell you a whole lot of other stuff about the rest of the circumstances that this woman has been in the middle of. If I did, perhaps you would be concerned about her child's civil rights on other grounds. She claims I put our "Children's Services" onto her. I was concerned, but I didn't make any report and I didn't know the foster parents and I didn't have any communication with them and no money ever changed hands between them and me. These are some of the claims she makes about me.
Perhaps I was used as a vehicle for escape in April 2006 and now I'm being used as a scapegoat for a woman who has been unable to resolve issues with her own husband. Take me out of the picture, and the story would still exist. It would have played out in some other tragic way. There are legal records in existence that relate to incidents before I came into the picture. If I knew what I know now I would have stayed well clear, believe me.
The only outcome this woman is prepared to accept now is for her husband to return to his place in their family. Fair enough. But isn't that between her and him? Doesn't he have a role in all of this? Is he so stupid that he can't think and speak for himself? Does his wife think he's so witless that he can't speak or act for himself? Maybe that is her experience of him in their marriage, and she is trying to appeal to this.
If the only outcome she will accept is to have him back in his place, then doesn't this whole claim she's making smell a little like blackmail of both him and me? Target me where she can hurt me so I'll denounce him, or is she targeting me in order to force him to denounce or defend me? Why is this a case for your blogsite?
I told you they'd had several opportunities to sort things out because I saw this as proving that they were apart for their own reasons, not because of me.
I suspect that what is underlying all of this is this woman's own desperation and terror at not feeling she can cope with life and a child alone. There have been solutions and support available to this woman, but there's a problem with her accepting help on terms other than her own. It has to fit her "pattern" of how it's supposed to be.
I've admitted my role. I've told you the chronological order of how it happened. I don't have anything more to confess.
When they both first made contact in 2004 I only remember the woman telling me something about the kids. I remember him saying things that indicated he was in a distressed state and couldn't find any health or community support service to meet their needs at the time, only a child protection group that wanted to remove the children without helping them address their problems.
At the time, I was only running an informal group with a handful of people. I was struggling with life myself. I didn't have any propaganda on Cassandra to give anyone. Her husband became a name on a mailing list, along with about 25 other names, half of whom I'd never met except by phone, just like him.
I am not privvy to what happened for their family between then and April 2006 except for what he has told me since, and what is apparent from evidence. All I know is that when he phoned me in April 2006 she was not living in the marital home because she had left him in order to "escape his abuse" and she had been gone just over a month. I believed what he told me.
What was in it for me? A friend. I took him on face value. I was led to believe the marriage was in fact over. Surely it was just as much his right to make a decision for himself as it was her right to decide to leave him in the first place for the issues that were important to her.
I believe you are over-looking the fact that in the portion of the letter abfh posted in the blog topic, this woman was emphatic in stating that she does not have an Autism Spectrum Disorder. If this is so, then she does not belong to your community. Her rights don't need protecting by you because, according to her own words, she's not Autistic. Therefore, she has the same means available to her as any other adult member of society to find resources and professional help to support her and her child.
Her case does not support your civil rights campaign against Cassandra propoganda.
I'm not part of the community of groups that promote Cassandra propoganda so this claim against me is false. Please don't make me the fall guy for other groups who may promote this stuff inappropriately.
You or abfh said somewhere that none of the people involved in the NT partner groups had been willing to engage in discussion. I have demonstrated my willingness right here on this blogsite. At least give me credit for having the guts to do so.
It was difficult to read what abfh posted as a blog topic without feeling like I needed to correct the claims that were being made because they just aren't legitimate.
Those who responded, and I'm sure those who didn't were moved emotionally to an extreme by this woman's story. If I didn't know anything about it myself, I too would have been moved like you were. I am certainly moved by the many parts of her story that would still exist if I didn't exist.
You have been moved emotionally by a story that is a distortion and embellishment of a few threads of truth. This case has been presented to you in such a way that it buys into your concerns about Cassandra propoganda and other NT partner stuff.
You only know what has been presented to you. I know a lot more about this situation than you have been allowed to know. I suggest that it is not me that is concealing information.
Or perhaps she actually believes her own story? She's picked up on the Cassandra propoganda online somewhere, she's made assumptions about me and our group, and her imagination has done the rest.
You have been very quick to believe and support this woman's claims.
The same as I was quick to believe her husband's claims about their circumstances and the "separated" state of their marriage.
I was emotionally moved by his story, and you were emotionally moved by her story.
It's a shame that often we only grow in wisdom and character with hindsight. This has certainly come back to bite me. You can analyse me all you like. I'm distressed and I'm upset and I'll tell you anything you want to know. If her desire was to make me crumble emotionally, then she's succeeded. I can't sleep properly and I'm a nervous wreck. The 100's of text messages to her husband's mobile phone every week don't help. I don't know what I can actually do now to meet this woman's demands, because it involves the free will of another person, namely her estranged husband. No matter what she does to me, in the end she can't force her husband to do anything against his own will. Can I ask for mercy? My will's just about broken. Please encourage her to seek and co-operate with mediation for herself and her husband as a constructive alternative to drowning and taking us all down with her.
CFG

By Anonymous, at 1:36 AM
CFG said;
“You are very welcome to come and visit my home and talk with me face to face and find out first hand what has been taking place. There is much I could show you. Bring your family and we'll give you accommodation and take you sightseeing”

This is a most generous offer on your part CFG I must say. It just so happens that at this present time, my wife is staying with her sister, in another sate. But I dare say the offer sounds somewhat tempting. What state are you in?

But before I accept, I’m still left somewhat in the dark wondering about the chap you already have there. That is if he is still there with you?
Is that what the woman who wrote this letter is claiming?
Or is that now no longer the situation?

As the original letter ABFH has begun this blog with states;

“I had no idea he was involved with her in any way until he announced to me on the phone from her house that he had decided to end our marriage for a woman he claimed at the time to have just met, and move in with her. But it turns out they had a long term secret involvement.”

This is still very confusing.
The part that is a cause of concern to me, that one might expect would deserve a straight answer. Wouldn’t you agree?
Is this referring to the time you had just met him, when he contacted you for information about your aspartner groups meetings?

CFG says;
"I didn't even know what he looked like until April 2006.
That's all the contact I had with them until the husband re-initiated contact with me in April 2006 informing me that his wife had left him and he wanted to speak with members of our group again for some understanding."

Is this really so?
That he was in already in relationship with you after just a few days?

Did this chap’s wife know he was involved with you, or did she not?

And also the part about him giving his wife this news on the phone, that he was in fact ending their marriage to be with you?

Because, CFG, if that’s the case it sounds like a somewhat unstable and fantastic thing for a chap to contemplate, if he had only just met you that is.

It’s hardly a thing any chap would do if he has an ounce of good sense, decency or character about him.
A very tragic way to bring about the end of marriage, I dare say. Breaking up a marriage on the phone, is what I’m getting at.

This chap is somewhat lacking in character, to say the least, if that’s the case, if not severely narcissistic!
Which does tend to cast an awful doubt on your own ability to judge character, CFG. I dare say.

Moving in with you? On your invitation no doubt.
I dare say, this does sound rather extreme, and stretches ones imagination to even consider this could be the case.
So that’s why I’m asking this question. And it seems it’s rather difficult to get a straight answer out of you, CFG. And crooked answers cause me to doubt. And as a politician, as yet, you don’t have my vote.

Because the stories present a rather large discrepancy. And I dare say it certainly sounds as if you are accusing the woman of some rather elaborate lying, if that’s not the case.

It certainly does sound like a very quick move on your part, to have this chap enter your home, and move in with you like that. Perhaps you can let us know if this is not the truth, in a straight manner.
In which case the woman writing this letter is being untruthful as you claim. But I dare say, you are being quite vague in the your attempts to answer my questions, leaving me to perhaps draw the conclusion the letter ABFH has posted here would likely be the truth. Wouldn’t you agree?

ABFH posted;
“he announced to me on the phone from her house that he had decided to end our marriage for a woman he claimed at the time to have just met, and move in with her”

Is this true?

Was the womans husband already in your home after just meeting you at an asperters group?

Or was he attending the group at your home, and decided to stay?

Or was he privately meeting with you at your home, as the original story in this blog appears to suggest.

Did this chap call his wife while at your home to announcing his decision to end his marriage and his intentions to reside with you in a relationship?

Is this true that the chap had only known you for a few days when he made this call to his wife from your house?

That’s awful quick wouldn’t one think?

Or had you already become good friends by this stage of the game?

CFG says:
“ I understood in hindsight that she would have felt very angry with me because I interfered with her "taking a stand" against his alleged "abusive" behavior and manner of speaking towards her. She had left in order to encourage him to have a "change of heart". She uses a lot of religious hype.”

I don’t see much religious hype here, but I’m dam certain that if this woman is making a stand against abuse of any kind in her marriage, the very last thing she needs is to have some other woman coming along and getting in the way, by offering him all the comforts of home including marital favors.
As appears to be the case; correct me if I’m wrong here. But that’s what the story alludes to. The term adultery is used, and you haven’t disputed this.
The chap in married to another woman, and adultery is rather clear in its meaning to most of us I would think. I’m no priest or any such thing, but I believe it refers to a sexual relationship between folk in which I dare say, one or both parties are married to someone else other than with who they are having sex
If that’s religious hype to you, then I’m afraid I’m the pope!

CFG says;
“I can't sleep properly and I'm a nervous wreck. The 100's of text messages to her husband's mobile phone every week don't help. I don't know what I can actually do now to meet this woman's demands, because it involves the free will of another person, namely her estranged husband. No matter what she does to me, in the end she can't force her husband to do anything against his own will. Can I ask for mercy? My will's just about broken. Please encourage her to seek and co-operate with mediation for herself and her husband as a constructive alternative to drowning and taking us all down with her.”

You are a nervous wreck and can’t sleep because she sends text messages to her husband? You feel you have to meet her demands? Good lord madam, it sounds to me as if there are now three people in this marriage. Can you see there’s some extreme enmeshment on your part with this couple you are saying you are trying to help; in a situation you appear to be more than a trifle, but awfully out of place.
It most certainly dose appear that you are a prime part of a marital triangle, and this chap is certainly stringing two woman along for quite a narcissistic ego trip, he’s feeding off.

I’m dammed if I understand how you can’t see your own presence in this couples marriage is a hindrance to say the least. And I dare say, causing this woman so much distress.
Why should this chap go back to his wife and family while you offer an alternative and an excuse to dip out on being responsible?
It seems extraordinary to me you see no way out of this.

You’re the one putting the fellow up in your home. Is he forcing you to do that?
Can’t you tell the scoundrel to rack off out of your house, and get your self some god dammed sleep? And he just may well see the way back to dealing with his own god dam garbage, and do some growing up.

I dare say all this can’t have a very beneficial effect on your five young children. You certainly cast some stones on this wife regarding her parenting ability, but I have to wonder what goes on with this kind of reasoning you have.

I dare say you sound as though you have no choice in the matter.
You have to keep this irresponsible straying husband at your house, with the reasoning; he doesn’t want to go home to his family. And we dam well wonder why there are so many divorces taking place in this country. Have you heard of the term enabling CFG? This chaps no stray dog you’re keeping off the streets.

Good lord dear woman, you then claim you are the one holding all these other aspergers marriages together.

Then you ask for the woman’s mercy?

I’m dammed certain this chap isn’t going to budge and inch towards working his marriage problems out while ever he has you there to baby him out of being a half decent chap, and take some responsibility in his life. You see this sort of thing going on all too often, and it’s a dam disgusting state of affairs.

You talk about your will about to break, madam. Has it occurred to you that it’s your will that’s in the way here and needs to break. A dam slight steak of stubbornness is detected if you ask me. Some folk feel they need to control every god dam life around them, but their own. Do you madam have a desperation or terror of letting go of control? Because that’s what I see heer.

I most certainly don’t see how you advising this couple to seek counsel or mediation will do a dam thing to help anyone, including yourself, while ever you’re hanging on in this triangle. And I dare say, the only one drowning here CFG looks to be your dam good self.
Get this chap out of your children’s home before he sinks your own dam ship.
I dare say, madam, it’s you who is drowning and certainly taking this chaps marriage and your own five children down with you, if you don’t dam quick chuck the scoundrel out on his cheating tooshi!

If it’s a matter of which of these two women are telling the truth, at this point I do believe you are doing more side stepping than straight answering.

If you weren’t already good friends, I find it inconceivable that you in the habit of inviting total strangers into your home to reside with you?

CFG, you do sound like a truly wonderful woman. With all the fine attributes and virtues you describe. You have a brood of five children to mother and care for, and you also care for the elderly. You are advancing your own education as you do all these generous volunteer works, holding all these challenging aspergers marriages together. You lead a lively aspartner group out of which you even find time to rescue troubled rejected aspartner husbands, accused of abusive behavior by their standing wives, whilst providing comforting favors in the bargain.
While being careful to not show disrespect to aspergers wives.

I must say, your benevolence and kindness appears to be without limits or bounds.

After due consideration, I don’t think we need ask any further; “what sate you are in”?

I do thank you for your extremely kind invitation extended to me, a complete and total stranger off the internet, to come into your home and receive your offer of fine hospitality, and accommodation. Being a married chap myself, with my wife out of state, I do find it somewhat lonely at times, and in need of a sympathetic ear, making such an invitation tempting.

I dare say, on one hand my wife may not exactly appreciate my coming to your home to meet with you in her absence or my participation in enjoying such free and unconditional kindness, while on the other hand I also hold certain doubts and fears I may never come out again, with my marriage and family still in tact!

Markus Worthy

By Anonymous, at 11:18 AM
Markus, it was you I was asking for mercy from. Maybe in real life you are a prosecution lawyer who is very successful at dissecting and dismembering those who are unfortunate enough to be in the witness stand. Perhaps they need paramedics on hand. My distress is at being blamed and held to ransom over someone's unfortunate life consequences that don't have nearly as much to do with my input as is being made out. You'd cry out in pain too if this was happening to you, if you knew your intention, motives and actions were technically innocent, but are being misconstrued to signify something much more sinister.
I'll just bare my throat now so that you can sink your teeth in and leave me lifeless on the floor.
I'd really like to see you cross-examine the woman who wrote the original letter. I'd probably end up wanting to protect her from you too if this happened.
My invitation for accommodation was to you and your family. I would be interested in talking to you because you sound fascinating, although somewhat savage. Because our contact is through a blogsite of an Autistic Self-Advocacy community with a strong web presence, I have assumed you are trustworthy and true to your Cause. Am I wrong to have formed this assessment of you, or have I dangerously misjudged your character?
Similarly I made an assessment of the man in question on similar grounds. The brief telephone contact in 2004 established that he and his family were very likely part of the Autistic community in one way or another, and I was also part of the Autistic community in one way or another. He had sounded like a genuinely caring person who was carrying a heavy burden of care in relation to his family.
When he made contact again in 2006 I based my assessment of him on the impression I'd already gained from the previous contact in 2004. I judged him to be safe and genuine.
Before I say anything more, I'll paint you a little more context re my own family.
My children's ages are 25, 23, 18, 15, 13. During the last 3 years there has only been 18 months when they haven't all lived here at the same time. Two of my sons are close to 6 foot in height, and feisty guys. I'm not a vulnerable woman with young children inviting a stranger into my home. My home has 6 bedrooms. Prior to moving to this home my family and I gave long-term boarding accommodation to other people on at least four separate occasions. Students, newly weds, single and broke, people we believed needed a bit of a hand to find their feet. In this context, what I did for the man in question is not so strange. Just last year I brought a very ill friend into my home and my kids and I cared for her for 6 weeks while she convalesced. She went home alive and very much better. Around the same time the brother of the man in question came and stayed here too for about 6 weeks while he also convalesced from surgery and a relationship breakdown. He also went home and went home alive, saying the time with his brother and me & my kids had really made a difference to his perspective and well-being.
One of my dreams is to extend and expand my interest in welfare into providing respite accommodation, should I ever have the money.
That'll give me a feast of vulnerable human beings to prey on won't it?! Can't wait!
The situation we are talking about is where I made a mistake and succumbed to being human. The phone call which was actually on the 12th of April 2006 revealed that this man was running a therapy group only two suburbs away at that very moment and we arranged to meet afterwards so I could fill him in on what the group had been achieving in the two years since I'd spoken to him last. It was fairly common for me to arrange to meet new contacts if they were within a reasonable distance from my home, and the only difference with this situation was that he was a male. I was curious to learn more about females with Asperger's Syndrome, and his story presented as being an opportunity for this. I am naturally very curious. He had stated to me that he was separated, so I didn't see any moral problem in meeting him for a coffee and a chat in a public place.
We had a fun and fascinating chat, and wanted to chat some more, so we arranged to meet two days later (14th April) and go to the Coast for an outing. Because his home was about an hour away, and he was having to use public transport because his wife had their car away in the country, I casually offered for him to bring a few things and bunk down on the loungeroom floor overnight if he wanted to. In a house full of kids, and often their friends, this wasn't strange at all.
He didn't go back home.
And this meant that his wife and child were able to return home to the family residence.
He has lived in other boarding accommodation during the last three years as well as living here, but he is here again at present.
Yes, I was way too fast at entering a romantic relationship with him. Middle aged lunacy.
It was two days after our trip to the Coast (16th April) that I believe he informed his wife that he'd met someone else and had started a new relationship. I did not hear his conversation with her so I don't know what he actually said to her. I don't believe he mentioned anything about the support group at the time, or who I was. I think it was several months before it occurred to her that he'd possibly got back in touch with the support group. It took her a while to discover my identity and she certainly didn't rest until she did.
Yes, it was also far too quick for this man to commit to a new relationship, in the circumstances. This wasn't fair on me, his wife, his child or himself, in hindsight. I forgave him for this because I'd realised very quickly that he was in quite a ragged emotional and physical state and had really been needing respite but no services had been available to help the family, as I mentioned before. I'm a rescuer, I had compassion, and I got personally involved.
What had also influenced him was his observation that his wife was actually managing quite well away from home without him and he realised that perhaps she wasn't as ill and needy as she'd been making out. He began to feel less responsible for her welfare as he saw her taking care of herself and the child ok. He was worn down and burnt out. He jumped ship when an opportunity came along.
I walked in at the right or wrong time depending on who you talk to.
It is so tempting to tell you specifics about their situation, and I know the family has in no way been identified on here so I probably could say more, but it just doesn't feel right. Their relationship was breaking down for reasons that were known only to them, although the woman will not acknowledge that she had a negative contribution at all. She paints herself as an angel full of love or as a helpless victim. Is she void of any capacity for hurting another human being or being difficult to live with?
She claims that her husband has abandoned her and their child in every way and that this is my fault because I've captured him and am exercising mind control over him like a cult leader, or that I'm practising witchcraft over him and their family.
I've respected him and allowed him to be an individual with the right to pursue his own life, interests, employment and relationships. I guess this could be construed as being quite controlling of me.
Since April 2006 I have witnessed this man re-establish lost relationships with his brother, sisters, adult children, aunties and many friends from way back. He's rebuilt his work-life back to working full-time, and is in training again to further his skills.
Abandoned his family? He pays the entire mortgage on the family property where his wife and child live, he pays her mobile telephone bill, he's paying off an old joint debt, he's paying child support, he has provided her with a car which he also supports after she wrecked the old one, and he responds with cash when she's in dire straits. She has an independent source of income for herself on top of this.
Abandoned their child? This woman was so desperate not to share parenting or custody of their child with her husband that she mischievously maligned him in recent Court proceedings and allowed the Court to believe distasteful things about him which led to the Judge making a Court Order preventing him from having any contact with his child unless supervised by a Child Protection officer. I understand by visiting the family home or going out with them anywhere, he is breaching this Court Order, and she is breaching it by insisting he visit and attend to things at the family home while the child is there, or by asking him to accompany them anywhere. I don't think she thought of these consequences when she made the claims she did. You could argue that her claims could have been true, that he in fact was a danger to the child, but if they were true why does she now hound him day in and day out to visit and do things for her and to return to her and complete their family again? She tells people and accuses him of being neglectful and irresponsible for neglecting the maintenance of their home and for not being involved in their child's issues in relation to school and medical appointments, etc but it's like tying someone up to a stake and then lashing them with a whip for not helping or showing interest.
She accuses him of not being interested in their child or showing love to the child, when she doesn't even allow him to have a direct telephone conversation with his child, and he wasn't able to have any contact or access visits with the child alone back in 2006 following the separation and before the child was removed from her mother's care. She has effectively carried out this "parental alienation" thing I learned about recently.
Every telephone conversation or contact ends up about her, the wife, the mother. Not the child.
He hasn't even been allowed to return to the home to collect his own clothes or personal items or anything that was shared.
What doesn't make sense to me is why this woman tells her story like she has without thinking that perhaps she'll get caught out. She knows I heard the things she said about her husband in Court. I've also read the transcripts, seen a lot of supporting evidence, and witnessed the condition of their home. I didn't steal things like she accuses me of. I couldn't even get further than a few steps in from the front door. I know why the child protection people were watching this family, and it relates to stuff that was happening before I had any involvement with them.
Do you believe a child with AS has a right to be educated? Should a child with AS be capable of reading and writing by age 10? Now I'll be guilty of goading the woman.
How much more do you want to hear Markus?
It's not my case that has flaws in it. In the end, it's up to you to choose who you want to believe.
But I don't think this is a case of protecting Autistic Civil Rights on the grounds that this woman has claimed. Far from it.
Cassandra? Cassandra Cult? I don't think so.
The invitation still stands Markus.
Would it be your responsibility or mine to ensure that you left my home with your marriage and family still in tact?
I dare you to take me up on it. My family is good at hospitality. They'll quickly sort you out though. My sons are very protective of me and my daughters are very intuitive.
We actually don't live in the US.
Talk again soon.
CFG

By Anonymous, at 12:30 AM
Are you there Markus?
Anyone?
I was hoping we could keep talking.
Now there's just silence and I don't know what this means.
Is it possible that what's been carried out here, right from the original letter to this point in the blog is a demonstration of the misunderstanding and perceptual differences that take place between our two communities?
Are we just acting out a typical scenario that takes place in mixed AS/NT relationships where both parties are just operating from their own perception and interpretation of what is taking place? If both the NT and the AS person are being genuine in trying to represent their own perceptions, and there's a chasm between, then where do the solutions lie? Couples need interpreters to sort things out or bring them to a place of agreement or compromise.
Some never succeed in finding an interpreter, or one that is trusted, and the relationship splits apart because the two positions seem completely opposed to one another, no compromise can be found and no-one knows enough about AS & NT issues to be able to help them, which is just so sad.
I accept the neurodiversity that I have started reading about on the Autistic sites. We all have a wonderful place in the workings of this universe. But someone needs to take some responsibility to acknowledge that there are huge discrepancies in the perceptions and priorities of AS and NT people and that unless someone comes up with a tool kit for interpretation and navigating workable co-operation then the hostility and conflict is going to persist and continue to damage all of us.
If we keep just focusing on attack between the two camps we are perpetuating the hostility and misunderstanding.
Maybe I'll keep browsing the blog topics and comments on your site, because I am enormously interested in understanding your perspective and neurological position. I am not out to attack, I just want to understand. Then I can help people better, and in a more balanced manner. But I do feel strongly that the AS community also needs to be responsible about understanding the perspective of the NT community, and try to be a part of the interpretation and solutions that we all so desperately need.
I came on here because the woman's claims about me and my group are ludicrous, and if someone were to investigate the circumstances truthfully, her claims would disintegrate to a few small threads of fact that have been distorted and misconstrued to support her own agenda, not your Cassandra propaganda agenda.
By my openness I have been trying to demonstrate that my life is an open book. I may not be proud of everything on every page, but I am open to being investigated and I have nothing to conceal.
Some of the claims this woman makes about me are so far from the truth I wonder what distorted place she got the information from. Maybe she came across one other disgruntled person who identified with her on some level and they've reinforced each other, or there's been a case of mistaken identity about me. If they really feel there's something sinister going on then there are about a dozen clinical psychologists I could refer them to who can help them with their issues. These psychologists would also confirm that our group is being responsible and open about the way it conducts its operations, and that the group is always open to professionals to visit and participate. If I was operating a cult I would shroud everything in secret and keep people out.
I don't even have the personal charisma for up-front leadership of a group, let alone command control of people. My strengths are in administration, personal support and the written word. I struggle in our meetings when it comes to leading and fascilitating discussion. Part of my studies include topics where I can learn and practise these skills.
I feel so very sorry that you've been led to believe that I hold hostile sentiments against Autistic people because it is just not true. Why would I say something I don't believe? I am in awe of the likes of Steven Spielberg, Bill Gates, Einstein and others. Your community has some wonderful representatives whose amazing gifts are exposed for all the world to see. I have been in an audience and heard Temple Grandin in person and I was totally mesmerised by her. She's delightful and fascinating, and she helped me understand so much by observing her as well as listening to her.
Recently my group hosted a Couples Workshop with well-known speakers and we had 200 people in attendance, most of them couples. It was great. Sensitive, informative, validating and solution focused.
I am telling you these things to reassure you that I am not what this woman has claimed, not because I'm looking for any commendation. If I was doing what I do for commendation, I would have given up a long time ago. It's hard work, and from time to time my words are misinterpreted or my motives are misjudged, which is very painful. There is no financial gain for me in any of this. I work on a voluntary basis. And I believe in the Cause. Not to elevate the NT community or promote a militant hostile position, and definitely not to disseminate "Cassandra propaganda" but to promote understanding and support people as they find their own solutions, preferably to rescue their marriages, but also to personally heal if it's too late for their marriage. I work with NT partners who are very motivated to rescue their marriages, but are being let down by the unwillingness of their AS partner to participate in the hard work and solutions.
Our group is moving into supporting AS groups and couples groups because we recognise that it is unbalanced to provide NT support only. We are the only face-to-face support group in our city dealing with any adult issues that I'm aware of (there are therapy groups), and we would welcome other initiatives to create balance to the support we provide.
I would also welcome contributions from your community about how best to work with mixed AS/NT relationships where one or both partners is crying out for help. Abfh has my email address and she has my permission to give it to anyone who genuinely wants to continue discussion with me or contribute to my own understanding and efforts.
Markus' interrogation of me and his attacks on me and my work, and his comments about the situation made it necessary for me to reveal some details about this situation that are delicate. Contained in my responses is a whole lot of implied information that should have the effect of raising questions that should establish reasonable doubt over the legitimacy of how this woman has represented her story to you.
I don't want to rip her apart on here, but if anyone asks for more information then the only information I have still kept concealed relates directly to how this woman's attitudes, beliefs and behaviours play out. I don't understand how this woman thinks, or the logic behind how she behaves, but I do feel that there is something affecting her perceptions and interpretations of what has been taking place around her in all of her interactions with other people over a long period of time. There seems to be an inability by her to measure how her words and behaviours affect and impact on those around her, as though she doesn't even see herself as a player in her circumstances or a contributor to the chaos and distress that is generated, not just for herself but for her family and others who become involved. Her experiences could have led to her carrying around quite a significant amount of trauma, frustration, anxiety and paranoia. If I provide any more information then this blog context will be guilty of adding yet another experience to her life that provokes panic, distress and retaliation.
Yet, I couldn't just sit back and let you believe that her claims were true about a dangerous Cassandra Cult in operation. That would be have been irresponsible of me, to let you believe a lie and be emotionally moved by a fabricated story. It would also have been unnecessarily unfair on the NT community to be held responsible for something that actually hasn't taken place.
If this woman does in fact have a neurological disability, then we all need to recognise this and leave her to find responsible solutions to the crises that exist in her life. There are people around her that know her and her issues and she needs to listen to these people and co-operate with workable, appropriate solutions rather than taking her battle overseas and to an online community to people who do not know her and most likely will never have an opportunity to observe her or know her in real life.
I'm open to further discussion.
CFG

By Anonymous, at 8:59 PM
Marcus Worthy posted:
“And from CFG I'd like to hear some clearer responses and responsible admissions.
You sound more like you are presenting a political speech on behalf of aspertners, than identifying this woman's pain.”

I agree with you, Marcus. and all the others.
The group this woman has become victim to, couldn’t be a better example.
Right down to the denial of any responsibility for harm done.
CFG has confirmed the original story of this blog,
But,she persists in her attempt to be seen as the innocent victim.

My Comment;
Someone remove the log from this woman’s eye before she is responsible for creating any more crisis in families, or adding any more marriages to the divorce statistics with her blindness.

No matter what it’s made out to be, you can’t get away from the damage that’s been done by this abusive group.
How much more will it take before these people are stopped.
Id like to know where this is taking place, if not in the States.

How far has this spread???

Reg.

By Anonymous, at 8:11 PM
I've respected him and allowed him to be an individual with the right to pursue his own life, interests, employment and relationships. I guess this could be construed as being quite controlling of me.

Um ... you allow him to be an individual? With rights to a life?

Did you mean to say this? Cuz it sounds controlling in the extreme ... Imagining another person's life is subject to your allowance.

By Unknown, at 1:20 AM
This a disgusting situation and exactly the type of behavior that occurs in these groups that Tony Attwood ought to be aware of and concerned about.
The pain for the woman concerned must be enormous.

I would definitely like to see what Tony Attwood would do about this if it were brought to his attention.

I believe that’s where the woman who wrote this letter should begin, and what I would be encouraging her to do.
Write to Tony Attwood. Make her complaint to him. If he is really concerned about the autism community he would most certainly act on her behalf.
ABFH, think many would be interested to hear of the outcome.
Thank you for bringing this situation to our attention, and please keep us posted.
We are people first, and deserve no less respect.
I agree,
This IS a disgusting situation and exactly the type of behavior that occurs in these off balance, one sided groups that Tony Attwood ought to be aware of and concerned about.

This is what these women, Rodman and Grigg have started. That’s where this all began.
And whilst a very sad story of something that has become so out of hand, it’s a good example of just how extremely damaging these groups can become.

The pain for the woman concerned must be enormous, and I do empathize with her and her child.

What a crying shame these hate groups associated with Maxine Aston; ASPIA and FAAAS weren’t nipped in the bud years ago when concerns were first raised.

I would definitely like to see what Tony Attwood would do about this if it were brought to his attention

I believe that’s where the woman who wrote this letter should begin, and what I would be advising her and encouraging her to do.

Write to Tony Attwood.
Make her complaint to him.
If he is really concerned about the autism community he would most certainly act on her behalf.

ABFH, I think many would be interested to hear of the outcome.

Thank you for bringing this situation to our attention, and please do keep us posted.

People with autism are people first, and deserve no less respect.

By A Person who loves a Person with autism, at 9:14 PM
Please excuse the previous double post.
I'm new here.
But I'm happy I found this blog. I'll be back with others to watch this topic with interest.

By A Person who loves a Person with Autism, at 9:23 PM
She did try to talk with Tony Attwood. However, he did nothing about it. I urge all who are concerned about Attwood's ongoing associations with Cassandra hate groups to sign the Autistic Self Advocacy Network's petition calling on Tony Attwood to stop the hate.

By abfh, at 9:31 PM
Reg: Cassandra groups are active in the UK, Australia, the US, and Canada.

By abfh, at 9:34 PM
”This is what these women, Rodman and Grigg have started. That’s where this all began.
And whilst a very sad story of something that has become so out of hand, it’s a good example of just how extremely damaging these groups can become.”

How very disturbing.

Yes. As a professional marriage and family therapist, I totally agree with this comment.

Such a group can not serve any positive purpose, or play any constructive role in assisting a marriage that involves a person on the spectrum. The groups involved should certainly be disbanded with out hesitation.

Any such groups MUST be run from the ground level up by people who are at least in healthy successful AS/NT marriages or relationships, if not totally nonobjective professionals. But there must be considerable input from the autism community.

Anything else is bigotry, no matter how they try to disguise it.
There is not any way someone could have an unbiased view if they are sighting Aspergers as the reason or excuse their marriage failed.

This abuse must not be allowed to go on any longer.
The example given here by ABFH is certainly a cause for grave concern.

I strongly support the petition opposing these three woman and this destructive self promoting agenda.
This can only distort even more, how the general public
view people with autism.

Tammy.

By Tammy, at 11:08 PM
What interesting advancement regarding this topic, I dare say.
I am not at all surprised. It's been on the cards for some time now.

Tammy said;
“Such a group can not serve any positive purpose, or play any constructive role in assisting a marriage that involves a person on the spectrum. The groups involved should certainly be disbanded with out hesitation.”

Yes, yes, yes!
I must say, I am in wholehearted agreement with the comments made here.

I do believe it’s more than fair to say the example outlined in this blog in particular, has well demonstrated if not proven, the extremity of the damage these three women named, and the groups they represent, conduct, and further influence do indeed cause considerable harm to marriages and families of autistic people.

The very tragic example given here is appalling. I most certainly agree, it is indeed a crying shame things have been allowed to proceed this far.

I do indeed stand firm in agreement and believe these groups to be offensive and certainly very harmful to people on the spectrum and even those otherwise. Indeed, we must work together exposing and opposing the Cassandra hoax, its well disguised follower’s, and to assure this kind of thing is no longer permitted, or allowed to continue.

It pleases me greatly to see some action being taken to oppose this sort of wrong doing, as I would most certainly expect is well in order.

As for the responder to this blog, with whom I have engaged in some degree of discussion and exchange dialogue, identifying herself as CFG;

I do indeed believe this person ought to be identified, located and also investigated thougherly by trained personnel, regarding her operation.
That including in particular, the incident of her unprofessional and unethical involvement in placing herself within the marital situation described.
In this person taking on such a role in our society, by appointment or otherwise, and then to go on to add to, or become part of, if not the entire source of this extreme degree of harm to any marriage, family, or human individual, no matter what their neurology is an atrocity in its own right.
But to then so damn casually dismiss the pain created in the life of another or other human beings, by the harm caused by way of her own inappropriate involvement and harmful action by way of an offer of the poorly excuse; “Im only human” is far from sufficient. This behavior is an aberrant expression of a selfish lack of an ability to be responsible, and a narcissistic display of no empathy.
I was not at all fooled in the slightest by the poor victim, and otherwise self exalting benefactor façade of CFG in this Blog.

My support is conveyed with expectation of a positive outcome to the current action.
I wish the organisers all good success with this long overdue campaign.

Markus Worthy.

By Anonymous, at 9:59 PM
I can see from what I read on this “forum” that there is no compassion. Only a search for who is in the “right” and who is in the “wrong”. I believe this to be the responsibility of God to decide and what is to be done about it. I am repelled by the pompous condescension I detect. You speak of the pain the “victim” woman must be feeling, yet my gut sense tells me the people writing this know very little of comprehending the pain of another. Empathy for the relational participants seems nonexistent on your parts. In a similar way I expect no justice from courts of law, I expect only interpretations of law from the writers that dwell here on this blog. The situation saddens me enough, without inflicting further sadness on myself by involvement here. If only you knew. But then you would be drawing on your own experience not mine. You would miss the opportunity to have empathy for a human being who suffers. I pity your cold vengeful legalistic hearts. And I pity me for wasting my breath in writing this post.

By Anonymous, at 6:25 AM
"I can see from what I read on this “forum” that there is no compassion. Only a search for who is in the “right” and who is in the “wrong”. I believe this to be the responsibility of God to decide and what is to be done about it. I am repelled by the pompous condescension I detect. You speak of the pain the “victim” woman must be feeling, yet my gut sense tells me the people writing this know very little of comprehending the pain of another. Empathy for the relational participants seems nonexistent on your parts. In a similar way I expect no justice from courts of law, I expect only interpretations of law from the writers that dwell here on this blog. The situation saddens me enough, without inflicting further sadness on myself by involvement here. If only you knew. But then you would be drawing on your own experience not mine. You would miss the opportunity to have empathy for a human being who suffers. I pity your cold vengeful legalistic hearts. And I pity me for wasting my breath in writing this post."

Actually Anon, we do have compassion. We probably have compassion more than you even do.

By A better future for all, at 11:02 PM
Pastor Craig Shepherd
Regarding this Cassandra Cult Group;
If this is a example of the hate groups described in the petition, I agree with the others that something must be done very quickly. These groups have gotten far out of hand, when tragic situations like this are the result.
Cults and cult investigation being a speciality interest of mine, I can say this story is a classic text book example of a cult in the making,right down to the fine details.
I would strongly suggest CFG and others like her ought to be investigated and prevented from doing any further harm to people.
The pride and arrogance possessed by CFG in her responses are not remarkable for a cult leader.
Most especially, in the way she attempts to rationalise and minimise the damage she is doing to this victim’s marriage and family, with no sincere regard for the victim. Evident by her vien attempts to cast blame back on those she victimises.

She could certainly be convincing to the less discerning and the none the wiser, vulnerable types she would attract.
It’s no surprise to me that CFG has left the discussion without being able to hear what was being said to her.
As a believer in almighty God, His justice and mercy, I only pray something is done soon by someone in a place of authority to put a complete and final end to destructive discriminative groups like the one CFG is responsible for.
Her saviour complex is extreme; and combined with the manipulative behaviours exhibited in her responses on this blog, this woman’s group definitely does bare all the marks of a cult of dependence.
Even in the absence of the usual spiritual or(though not mandatory) religious aspect present or predominant in many potential cult leaders, (distorted misuse of scripture, fundamental religious doctrine, beliefs, etc for instance) that are often evident in a group considered to be a cult, as some believe, such is not necessary.
Not all cults are religious. The other aspects shown here more than qualify this group to fit the category ABFH describes.
For the most part, just a strong reliance or dependence by individuals on a unique or special type of care, support, understanding, guidance, advice, etc, that the follower is persuaded or convinced via specific intense indoctrination is available from no other source other than from a specific unique or special leader. Whereby that leader possesses extraordinary abilities or powers of persuasion, control, manipulation and an ability to believably distort or twist the truth, with the aim of meeting a need in, or to suit the desire or agenda of the leader for self importance, adoration or grandeur. That being to exalt him/herself, as above their dependant followers. The leader needs to be needed, and indispensable. He/She answers to no one, and makes up all the rules. In effect creating a new religion (in a sense) of his own design. A religion of sorts, whereby the leader exalts him/herself, with self praise, and unfaltering superiority, and is exalted by others, who become the believers in the exalted leader. Thus, the cult is formed.

By Anonymous, at 11:27 PM
continued from previous post
;
The responses here contributed by the said cult followings group (CFG?) leader herself is no surprise to me and also very typical of the behaviour to be expected of a person in such a position of control over others. She believes her own version of events, even though the moral and professional inappropriateness and the opposing evidence and even self incriminations are blatant. She is lost and removed from the reality of her folly in her delusion of grandeur. She sees only herself in the illusion of confidence she hides behind.
Im sorry to say, it would present a challenge for the victim’s husband to break away from such a controlling influence without professional intervention, at this stage. He would be hooked in by the pull and push of love bombing and distancing. Abuse of this kind is what creates a loyalty and dependence that is stronger than blood and family ties, or previous moral or religious values held.
The betrayal of marriage and family commitments or moral obligations are typically cast aside for an unwavering dependence on the cult leaders false promise of an elusive goal, of idealistic happiness, completeness, and fulfilment, to be found only within the cult following, under the unique guidance of the cults leader.
At the very least, a dangerous situation for anyone who would encounter such an individual or enter such a group.

I have heard that people with aspergers, or thises with traits of aspergers can be vulnerable to cults due to their trusting naivety and their particular talents, that attract the attention of the personality types that qualify a cult group leader.
Check out this web site for more helpful information;

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1214&Itemid=5

Thank you to ABFH for bringing attention to this horrific circumstance.
I would like to see the particular group in question named and exposed for the protection of others.
Pastor Craig Shepherd.

By Anonymous, at 11:29 PM

Whose Planet Is It Anyway?

Sunday, March 01, 2009

Cassandra Cult Victim Speaks Out

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